#18961
andyj
Flatchatter


    @JimmyT
    said:


    @drshelley
    said:
    Can anyone tell me why when they install timber floors in new apartments there doesn’t seem to be any problem.

    “We have timber floors – top of the line gear on 11mm insulation.  Imagine our shock when our downstairs neighbour told us “of course we can hear you!”

    The thing is, we take our shoes off, we don’t run around or jump up and down. In other words, if you are  so keen to be a ‘go-ahead couple” modify your lifestyle and have little consideration for your neighbours.

    Or, you should tell this selfish besom “go ahead … and move out.”

    Hold the line, my friend.  They are in the wrong, you are in the right.

    My compromise would be, since they have signalled that they have no intention of changing their behaviour, that you will let them put wall-to-wall carpet and underlay on top of the floorboards provided the promise never to remove it.

    And pass this message on from the Flat Chat Crew:  Go-ahead couples in 2013 do their research and know that doing stuff on the cheap in strata never ever works.

    Having read and contributed to the Flat-Chat forum with interest over the past 12 months or so, it would appear that the issue of timber floors and the noises they generate in strata complexes is a very common and often distressing topic.

    Jimmy T mentions in his post that he was “shocked” when his down stairs neighbors mentioned that they could hear him and his significant others, despite his considerable efforts to ensure his timber floors were insulated to the highest degree possible. Jimmy says that they take of their shoes and don’t run/jump around in their apartment which shows consideration for the occupants of the apartments surrounding his.

    Naturally when living in a strata complex one should expect some noise to be heard from surrounding apartments, however with efforts to adequately insulate floor spaces, and thoughtfulness and consideration toward fellow neighbors, this noise is not often disturbing or intrusive.

    Unfortunately not all strata dwellers are as considerate as Jimmy. Owners often lay their timber floors with the bare minimum of acoustic insulation to save costs. This often means that the floor has a tendency to transmit a much greater level of noise that a quality carpeted floor or a timber floor that has been installed to the highest standards.

    If the occupants of said apartments are willing to modify their behavior in a manner Jimmy has suggested then often the issue with floor noise can be avoided or minimized. These measures include, but are not limited to  laying quality  rugs in high traffic areas, taking off shoes, walking lightly over the surface, not dragging furniture around all day and settling children (or adults behaving like children) down at a reasonable hour in the evening. One also has to be aware that airborne noise is transmitted more easily by a poorly insulated floor space.

    As is all too often that case the occupiers of strata apartments these days do not give a toss about their neighbors or the impact their activities may be having on them.

    Even with well insulated floors, if the occupants want to skip rope at 2am, hold drunken parties or their kids play will all the subtlety of a military exercise then there will be noise issues.

    The perfect storm occurs when you combine poor floor space acoustic insulation with “go-ahead” occupants who couldn’t care how much noise they are making and under no circumstances will modify their behavior.  

    Almost invariably Professional Strata Managers will say its an issue between the owners and that they “don’t want to take sides” despite being reminded that they are responsible for ensuring by-laws are adhered to. Fellow neighbors will also tend to shrink into the shadows unless they too are directly affected by the noise pollution.

    Notices to Comply are somewhat difficult to prepare as there are strict guidelines to follow and the penalties (if issued) have the deterrent effect of a smack on the hand with a wet bus ticket.

    The CTTT track of mediation/adjudication/appeal is a long one and as mentioned by Jimmy and some of the other Strata Gurus can be a lottery as to the outcome.

    Mediation often consists of the other party denying the existence of a noise problem supported protestations of their rights to do what they want in their apartments or frantic waving of documents from store brochures attesting to the sample acoustic performance of the floor and that it meets BCA standards.

    In my case I offered for the owners brother to come and listen to the noise for himself (even the mediator thought this would be a good idea). Unfortunately the other party suddenly was “too busy to attend” and became hostile before frantically waving the installers brochures again. I noted with interest when they put in their submissions to the adjudicator that they claimed that they had been pleading with me for some time to come and witness the commotion caused by their floor.

    Adjudication thankfully is relatively straight forward. Interested parties put their submissions in writing and then the adjudicator issues orders. If you have lined up your duck correctly by gathering evidence and witness statements, these orders will often be in your favor. It is worth noting that the adjudicator will issue orders that the “respondent” comply with the by-law, but not stipulate how (ie laying of carpet/replacement of acoustic underlay etc).

    The next step of course is the appeal from the disgruntled floor owner. Here you may encounter lies, damn lies and statistics from the other party (eg accusations of harassment, attempts to blame other unit owners for their floor noise and more waving of irrelevant documents in way of proof). If you have continued evidence and witness statements of the noise problem you are likely to prevail again.

    Sadly some floor owners wont end it here and will dig in their heels and go through many penalties processes until either you give up or the tribunal says that they have done enough to comply (even if they have in fact done nothing).

    The final step is the district court or the supreme court. Here things get expensive, however “if” you win they will bear your costs.

    It is sad that many people have to be dragged through this process that can take years to resolve at great emotional and often financial cost to the affected party

    There are 4 ways to tackle noise problems in a strata unit

    1 Notice to Comply path

    2 CTTT mediation/adjudication/appeal/penalties path

    3 NSW Protection of the Environment Operations Act

    4 Civil action in the courts for breach of a covenant (the by-laws are a binding covenant on owners and tenants) asking for damages.

    The last 2 are riskier if you lose (you bear the court costs) but carry more weight if you win (breach of court order is a criminal act)

     

    It is a pity that when someone installs a floating timber floor that there are not mandatory tests that have to be performed by the installer to meet a certain standards (say 5-6 star rating).

    andyj