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  • #10234
    Millie
    Flatchatter

      Our AGM was held last night. A group Owners sought and received a good block of proxy votes. A slightly bigger number of proxies were given to ‘The Chairman’.  The current EC Chairman then used those proxies to defeat every motion calling for compliance with the Terms and Conditions of our mandatory Building Insurance Policy, the terms of the building’s Development Consent, certain of our By-always etc, etc.

      One attendee has claimed that the proxies must be given to an individual and not the ‘Chairman’ and that as such the Meeting and the Resolutions passed to defeat the Motions can and should ruled invalid under Section 2 of the NSW SSMA.

      Also, the EC last month held a meeting without issuing an Agenda and without reaching a quorum. When I pointed out to the Strata Manager that this couldn’t be classified as an EC Meeting the SMA then held a subsequent paper EC Meeting, again without issuing an Agenda or advising Owners of the ‘meeting’ and ‘ratified’ seven pages of Resolutions ‘passed’ without Motions being notified and listed. The only person ‘present’ at the paper meeting and the chair of the meeting was the Strata Manager. The first anyone knew of this was when we received the ‘Minutes’ of this paper meeting the day before our AGM. Included in the resolutions was one pertaining to my lot. This was ‘passed’ without me receiving any notice of a motion and therefore without having the option of responding to a proposed motion over my Lot/Unit. Shouldn’t this ‘meeting’ and its ‘resolutions’ also be declared invalid?

      Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

      Thanks

    Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 17 total)
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    • #24205
      Whale
      Flatchatter

        Millie – in response to your questions:

        Provided the appointment of a proxy is on the Prescribed Form, indicates how the appointee is instructed to vote (e.g. on all matters), is dated, and is given to the Secretary at or before the General Meeting to which it applies (or at least 24 hours before for Schemes of >100 Lots) then an appointment of a recognised office holder such as the Executive Committee “Chairman” as proxy would be valid.

        However (there’s always at least one of these in matters Strata) votes by Owners at a General Meeting that resolved to do or not do something that’s  prohibited or prescribed under the Law, such as to comply with the conditions of a Development Consent for the Scheme issued under the NSW Environmental Planning and Assessment Act, or with an Owners Corporation’s duty of disclosure under the Federal Insurance Contracts Act, or not to enforce compliance with a By-Law in accordance with the NSW Strata Schemes Management Act (SCMA) IF a majority were of the reasonable opinion that a Breach had in fact occurred, would all be invalid.

        That raises the matter of Executive Committee Meetings (ECM) where such “reasonable opinions” regarding Breaches are usually formed, and where the entirety of Sch.3 of the  SCMA sets-out the “Constitution” of how such Meetings are to take place, including Notice of Meetings, Agendas, and Minutes, and again if as your post indicates these procedures weren’t followed, then the entirety of the meeting that your Strata Manager arranged with himself would be invalid; as clearly it’s not an ECM.

        There should have been an ECM immediately after your recent AGM where, among other things the newly elected Committee Members would vote on the appointment of Office Holders for the coming 12 months.

        I’m guessing that despite their past shenanigans the proxy-farming Owner was re-elected as a Executive Committee Member and then re-elected Chairman at the following ECM, but while you get what the majority votes for, there is another light at the end of the tunnel.

        In addition to the invalidity of some AGM resolutions, despite the fact that your Strata Manager may be delegated the role of Secretary (e.g. to convene all meetings) that other “light” is that the elected Secretary can by written advice to the Strata Manager assume that role themselves for a particular meeting or more generally.

        So as I recently advised another Flatchatter, don’t allow the tail to wag the dog to a greater extent than what’s acceptable to the majority.

        #24210
        Millie
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          Thanks Whale.  Our problem is (amongst so many others):

          One block of owners can’t be bothered engaging in the process of AGM/EGMs, not matter the amount of corresponding and lobbying we do.

          Another block of owners – alas, still a majority – support and flick their votes to the Chairman and EC Members…all Investor Owners…who are in cahoots with the Strata Manager and Caretaker and those responsible for so many blatant wrongdoings.

          Another block of owners – who just fall short of enough votes to oust those breaking/breaching laws all over the place – is pulling their hair out in frustration.

          There are multiple breaches, as per your lisitng above. The NCAT has just sent us packaging again so there is never any assistance from them.

          One quirky question: when an Annual General Meeting is called must it be the current Chairperson who chairs the meeting, or can another owner step up and insist on chairing the meeting, thus scooping up the proxy votes to the ‘Chairperson’ and staging a coup?

          #24221
          Whale
          Flatchatter

            Millie – I’m reluctant to ask about what it was that you took to the NCAT and about the stated rationale behind its decision to send you “packing”, so suffice to say that it’s a pity that their reported decisions still seem to be too often determined from a spin of that oft-mentioned chocolate wheel that it inherited from the former CTTT; same jockeys, different horse!

            Regarding your AGM, I’m afraid that your elected Executive Committee Chairman will be able to chair the Meeting and to exercise those proxies that he’s farmed UNTIL the new Legislation comes into force in July 2016, where-after no individual will be able to hold any more then one (1) proxy for Schemes having less than 20 lots, and for larger Schemes a number of proxies equal to 5% of the total lots.

            A couple of long-shots; ask the Chairman to let you examine all Proxy Forms before the commence met of the Meeting to ensure that each is properly completed and to make ineffective any that aren’t, and to have the block of owners that’s collectively pulling its hair out call for a poll vote on all Motions that it concerned about. Even if the outcome of the poll vote is the same as it would have been under the one vote / one value system, calling for the former will at least send a message to the others in attendance.

            #24222
            Millie
            Flatchatter
            Chat-starter

              (JimmyT to decide if it’s appropriate to publish this on the forum)

              Whale – thanks for your considered response.

              The Order sought:  the appointment of a compulsory strata manager.

              The NCAT ‘wasn’t satisfied that the draconian step of removing the operation and management of the strata out of the hands of the owners as constituted by the OC and into the hands of a compulsory strata manager is appropriate…‘ And that ‘such an order is only appropriate if any of the circumstances in section 162 (3) are proven on reliable and objective evidence.’  The 10 Owners who wrote in support of the Submission and I dispute this.  Do I now ‘fight’/dispute the NCAT Adjudicator?  (Who has the strength?)

              At our 2014 and 2015 AGMs a Poll Vote on all Motions dealing with Legislation was called for, in writing and in good and generous time prior to both meetings.  On both occasions the EC Chairman (former State MP) and Strata Manager refused the request and proceeded with a ‘show of hands’ only.  At the meeting held a couple of weeks ago, I suspect the now semi-bald and law abiding voting group could have had the majority, based on units of entitlement.  (I regrettably wasn’t able to attend so was unable to scrutinise the proxy forms in favour of the Chair/SMA.)

              The SMA has been asked to confirm when we might expect to receive a copy of the Minutes – it might then be possible to tally the units of entitlement and ascertain whether or not we could have swung the meeting in favour of compliance however, as per usual, none of our communication is ever responded to, so…

              I’ve made a list of the of Legislation which was covered in the AGM Motions.  All the Legislation is clear – written in plain English and in no way confusing.  My honest opinion: it is very telling that the controlling cohort – Chairman and Strata Manager (often on behalf of the Caretaker) – used proxy votes issued in their favour to defeat/declare ‘out of order’ the numerous Motions calling for compliance with Legislation on the following:

              NSW Strata Schemes Management Act:- 

              –  Schedule 3, 2, 6(3), 9(3)
              –  The entirety of Schedule 3
              –  Schedule 2, 19(2)
              –  Section 83
              –  Schedule 2, (3)
              –  Section 65B
              –  Section 63B
              –  Schedule 3, Part 1, 3A (1)
              –  Sections 96, 97, 98, 99 and 119
              –  Sections 100, 108 (3)(h)

              Determination of Development Application, Council for the City of Sydney, Application No: A==-+++++:-

              –  Residential Use 5(c)
              –  Residentual Use 5(a,c)
              –  Section 88B

              NSW Conveyancing Act 1919

              Federal Insurance Contracts Act

              Environmental Planning and Assessment Act

              Caretaking Agreement (date –/–/—-) – The Owners – Strata Plan No. (….) and The Caretaker

              Property Stock and Business Agents Act 2002, Section 57

              NSW Land and Environment Court, Case number %%/@@@@, Council of the City of Sydney v The Caretaker

              Where to now?  I’m just about defeated.  Yet, it’s our homes, our financial security and exposure to unlimited liability we’re talking about.

              #24225
              Whale
              Flatchatter

                Millie – it’s awfully difficult for you to influence proceedings at an AGM when you couldn’t personally attend, but notwithstanding that and the foibles of the NCAT you would in my opinion make better progress there if you were to concentrate one-by-one the many items of low-hanging fruit that your posts have identified instead of going in boots-and-all for the statutory appointment of a Strata Manager.

                As but one example, the Chair’s refusal to conduct a poll vote would be worth a challenge under Sect 153 particularly in circumstances where the result of the vote as taken likely produced a different outcome. 

                #24232
                Millie
                Flatchatter
                Chat-starter

                  Appreciate your advice. Thanks again Whale

                  #24263
                  Millie
                  Flatchatter
                  Chat-starter

                    An update: the EC Meeting normally held immediately after the AGM was held tonight.

                    The minutes of the EC Meeting of a couple of months ago – no agenda sent and no quorum reached – were excepted this evening.

                    Motions which I requested in writing be placed on the Agenda for tonight’s meeting weren’t included.

                    Six new EC members joined the old three – all voted against compliance motions at the recent AGM.

                    And the NCAT is of no help.

                    If there’s a magic key one needs to get the ‘system’ to work, I wish I knew where to find it.

                    Without a doubt, I’m considered the biggest ratbag imaginable by the owners on the EC.

                    And our Caretaker who has run a largescale illegal operation in the building for the last 18 years, and controls the EC, is as happy as Larry.

                    Streuth…Strata!

                    #24265
                    Jimmy-T
                    Keymaster

                      So NCAT refused your application for the appointment of a statutory manager?

                      Considering this is one of the worst cases of EC incompetence, illegal behaviour and action bordering on corruption that I have come across in 12 years of writing about strata, I think it’s time the “great and the good” in your building were brought to book. 

                      They are clearly holding on for the dreadful day when the old guard kick Clover out of Town Hall and their mates can get your building re-zoned. 

                      I would certainly be appealing the NCAT adjudication at a District Court, making sure that the Press was alerted when all these fine upstanding people are called to account for their blatant disregard of strata law and council zoning.

                      It’s time someone put a spoke in their wheels.

                      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                      #24278
                      Millie
                      Flatchatter
                      Chat-starter

                        Thanks JimmyT

                        Question:  Can evidence from earlier Submissions (plural) be represented in an appeal or are the issues of ‘Res Judicata’ and ‘Issue Estoppe’ be thrown at us again?

                        Question:  Can new evidence be presented to the NCAT in an appeal?

                        Question:  NCAT says appeals must be lodged within 21 days but one may ask for an extension of up to 90 days – does anyone know under what circumstances an extenion to 90 days might be granted?

                        With thanks and appreciation in anticipation

                        Millie

                        #24322
                        Millie
                        Flatchatter
                        Chat-starter

                          All I want for Christmas is a hot shower, but it looks like it isn’t going to happen…

                          Here’s to a safe and hopefully ‘corrective‘ 2016!

                          Season’s Greetings to all

                          #25173
                          Millie
                          Flatchatter
                          Chat-starter

                            The second half of 2016…and a new ploy by our Executive Committee, with the Chairman still threatening to sue me. This follows straight on from formal letters to me from Lawyers representing our former careTAKER who had Orders including a Penal Notice issued against him by the Land and Envirionment Court.

                            Every time I submit written requests for Motions to be put to the Executive Committee at either a ECM or General Meeting the response is that “privileged legal advice” rules all the Motions Out of Order.  No details are provided of the Lawyer/Legal Firm who has provided this advice or the cost to the Owners Corp for this “privileged legal advice”.  And as it’s privileged, one can’t see or know the contents of why the Motions are all deemed ‘Our of Order’.

                            I recently submitted the headings for Motions to be put to the Executive Committee, followed by explanatory text and asked that the Motions be put on the Agenda in a fashion acceptable to the Executive Committee.  The headings were listed on an Agenda, with the following:  “Explanation – no explanation provided by (named) Owner of Lot (number) Unit (number).

                            The EC Meeting is held, every Item/Request for Motion is noted in the Minutes with:  RESOLVED THAT the Chairman ruled the motion Our of Order – not taking the form of a motion.

                            The months go by, all breaches of legislation are dismissed in this fashion, the EC Resolves numerous matters which are not included in the Agenda, a quorum is not reached, the NCAT won’t hear of appointing a compulsory Strata Managing Agent as this is a “draconian measure”.  If this is the case, why then is one permitted to pay for and request such an Order?  

                            One wonders if the NCAT lets all this and much much more continue in our Owners Corporation because the EC Chairman is a former State Politician and there are multiple State MPs amongst his cronies?  And why can an NCAT Adjudicator correctly name everyone – multiple submissions received – involved in a Request for Orders yet omit one name: that of a serving State MP?

                            JimmyT’s quote from 08/12/2015 above rings in my ears:  “Considering this is one of the worst cases of EC incompetence, illegal behaviour and action bordering on corruption that I have come across in 12 years of writing about strata, I think it’s time the “great and the good” in your building were brought to book.” 

                            There’s got to be an ABC mini-series similar to Utopia.  Strata is just ripe for the picking!

                            #25514
                            Millie
                            Flatchatter
                            Chat-starter

                              Our EC has moved a Motion that Owners must give a minimum of 90 hours notice if they wish to attend an EC Meeting.  Owners are only granted24 hours to note the date of the meeting and meet the 90 hour cut off limit.  Is this permissible?

                              Our Strata Agent (one can’t attribute the word ‘manager’ to them) has banned an Owner’s request in writing for a proxy to attend an EC Meeting on the Owner’s behalf.  The owner had many Motions listed on the Agenda for the Meeting and was unable to attend due to travel commitments.  Can a Strata Agent do this?

                              Our EC has on all previous occasions ruled as ‘out of order’ all Motions previously put by this Owner.  With advice from the Dept of Fair Trading’s Head of Mediation the Motions were again put – the Motions ask for compliance with legislation and required a simple yes/no vote.  The EC declared the Meeting over after approximately 40 minutes claiming time restraints meant they couldn’t address the Motions.  They deferred all the Owner’s Motions until after the next AGM in two months time.  Some of the Motions call for action to be taken at a General Meeting.  Is such behaviour permissible?

                              In a response for a Request for Orders – the imposition of a compulsory Strata Managing Agent – the Executive Committee previously guaranteed to the CTTT/NCAT that they were undertaking a review of the Strata Managing Agent’s contract and, if the Request for Orders was dismissed they would immediately proceed with the tender.  The CTTT/NCAT used this assurance as the reason behind their dismissal for the Orders.  The tender process was never recommenced with the EC citing the Strata Manager’s particular knowledge of a major operation within the building, which was deemed by the Land and Environment Court/City of Sydney an “Illegal Use of Premises”.  Is this effectively contempt of the CTTT/NCAT?

                              Never have I know such an impossible scenario.  This is simply the latest episode in what a Strata Agent and Strata Committee Members are capable of.

                              #25516
                              scotlandx
                              Strataguru

                                You don’t need permission to attend an EC meeting, an owner is entitled to attend – para 14 Schedule 3.  You certainly don’t need to give any notice, but you can’t speak unless the EC grants you permission.

                                At least 72 hours (not 24) notice of an EC meeting must be given, and a notice posted on the board or the notice sent to all owners.  The notice must state where the meeting is to be held and include a sufficiently detailed agenda.

                                In relation to a proxy at an EC meeting, I think what you mean is a representative of the owner.  The EC can refuse to aloow a non-owner to attend.

                                I don’t know what drugs your EC is smoking, but you can ask them to comply with the law (unlikely as it may be).  They can pass a contrary resolution but they can’t override the law.

                                #26265
                                Millie
                                Flatchatter
                                Chat-starter

                                  If I had known, would I have every sold my former home and moved into strata…?

                                  An update on an ‘Invalid’ 2016 AGM, reconvened two nights ago:-

                                  In the last four years, the CTTT/NCAT has rejected all Request for Orders over our property, a strata building in Sydney.  The first of the three request for Orders – the mandatory appointment of a Strata Managing Agent – was dismissed.  The Respondents gave written assurances to the Adjudicator of the CTTT that a tender process for a new strata managing agent would resume if/when the Request for Orders were dismissed (SCS 13/15832).  Those Strata Managing Agents initially contacted to submit tenders were never contacted again – confirmed by Mr ABC of Strata Managing Agency XYZ.

                                   

                                  • Every single request/Motion ever put to review the performance of the current Strata Managers has been denied/defeated.  
                                  • Every single request/Motion ever put to send the contract to tender to gauge the market value of the contract has been denied/defeated.  (Of course this is bar one; which, as predicted and expected, never went the distance.)
                                  • A request/Motion to hold our 2016 Annual General Meeting after the introduction of new SSMA legislation, whereby the holding of proxies is limited, was denied/defeated. 

                                  The requests from almost all Owners present at the reconvened 2016 Invalid Annual General Meeting held this week to put the strata agent’s contract to tender was overridden by the Chairperson, a disgraced former MP.  With proxies, (held because the meeting was under the SSMA 1996) saw carried the Motion to grant the Strata Managing Agents a further 3-year contract, bringing to 21-years the length of their engagement.

                                  At no time during all these years has there ever been a review of the Strata Managers or their contract terms and conditions, despite all our pleas to do so.   Owners were in turn told that they have the right to voice any concerns to members of the Strata Committee; to which Owners responded that they do not have the contact details of anyone on the Committee.

                                   

                                  For the fourth General Meeting in a row, all Motions calling for compliance with various levels of legislation were defeated.

                                   

                                  I am waiting to be told again that I haven’t done enough…whatever I’m doing I’m obviuosly doing incorrectly…I’m obviously incompetent, etc etc.  I’ve given this my ALL.  And perhaps those criticising are correct.

                                   

                                  Strata Managing Agents publically congratulate Lawyers who have ‘saved their bacon’ at the NCAT, and in turn the Lawyers, who have received Lot Owner’s monies, write glowing public reviews of the Strata Managing Agents.

                                   

                                  Our system, our legislation is meant to deliver transparency and fairness. In my opinion, and in our case, it is failing, miserably and completely.

                                   

                                  #26269
                                  Jimmy-T
                                  Keymaster

                                    I have it on the personal assurance of Innovation and Better Regulation Minister Dominello that any obvious attempts to circumvent the anti-proxy harvesting laws (or any other laws) should be challenged under Section 232 (a) and (c), as well as Section 24 of the Strata Act, quoting his speech in support of the Second Reading of the Bill to show the intent of the law.

                                    It says: “Voting methods, increased participation and dealing with proxy voting are … critical issues to strata communities” and refers to “the scourge of proxy farming.”

                                    Shifting dates and calling meetings adjourned so that they can be held under the terms of the previous laws are a clear attempt to subvert the current laws and should be challenged via a request for orders at NCAT to rescind the decisions made and invalidate the election.

                                    Mr Dominello has told me his department will be looking closely at any such challenges to see if the law needs to be tightened even further.

                                    232 Orders to settle disputes or rectify complaints
                                    (1) Orders relating to complaints and disputes
                                    The Tribunal may, on application by an interested person, original owner or building manager, make an order to settle a complaint or dispute about any of the following:
                                    (a) the operation, administration or management of a strata scheme under this Act,
                                    (c) an agreement appointing a strata managing agent or a building manager.

                                    24 Order invalidating resolution of owners corporation
                                    (1) The Tribunal may, on application by an owner or first mortgagee of a lot in a strata scheme, make an order invalidating any resolution of, or election held by, the persons present at a meeting of the owners corporation if the Tribunal considers that the provisions of this Act or the regulations have not been complied with in relation to the meeting.

                                      

                                    The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
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