Flat Chat Strata Forum Neighbour noise Current Page

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  • #8135

    Our new downstairs neighbour in an old, badly built and poorly insulated building of 36 has started renovating, himself, outside normal working hours because he works 9 to 5. We’ve had drilling and hammering etc. on many evenings until about 8pm or a bit after and at weekends.

    I know what the NSW Strata Titles Act says and I know what our by-laws say; the standard, often quoted phrases about ‘peaceful enjoyment’ without mentioning any exact times.

    Our neighbour is quite obstinate, inconsiderate and selfish. He insists he is OK, so long as he abides by the Environmental Protection Authority noise rules adopted by our local council: that anything goes between 7am and 8pm every day of the week, Sundays included. Totally unsuitable for strata dwellings in general I’d suggest and definitely unsuitable in ours.

    I need to act decisively very soon, mediation or the CTTT will take too long and we’ll go crazy. The Executive Committee, I hear you ask? Won’ get involved. Strata Manager? Reckons he can’t act without a direction from the EC.

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  • #15497
    Jimmy-T
    Keymaster

      There’s actually nothing ambiguous about the by-laws.  They operate over and above the standard council rules, rather than instead of.  In short, your neighbour can’t make a noise that disrupts the peaceful enjoyment of a lot (if you have that by-law) at any time, night or day. That’s why there’s no time stipulated – it apples 24/7.

      The difference with the council by-laws is that you can get the authorities involved as well as the Owners Corp,  if the noise goes past the statutory hours.

      Now that polite discussion has failed, you could try applying to your District Court for a noise abatement order. Or you could even threaten action at the Supreme Court, although you would have to have a case for damages for them to even take an interest.

      In fact, a call to a strata lawyer might be well worthwhile.  A lawyer’s letter explaining owners’ responsibilities under the Act often has more effect that a knock on the door.

      But really, this is an EC issue and you should ask them why they are even on the committee if they aren’t interested in upholding the by-laws.

      Apart from that, your only recourse is an application directly to Fair Trading for a Notice To Comply which comes with the threat of a fine attached if he continues to ignore this. Because by-law enforcement isn’t compulsory in NSW, individual owners and tenants can take cases to Fair Trading themselves.

      You’ll find the necessary forms here. Try to get a couple of neighbours to support you to both share the cost and bolster your case.

      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
      #15507

      Jimmy, thanks for clearing-up confusion about local council noise rules vis a vis Strata Titles Act and By-Law noise rules. (Maybe you could write an article on roundabouts.)

      #15510

      @JimmyT said:
       In short, your neighbour can’t make a noise that disrupts the peaceful enjoyment of a lot (if you have that by-law) at any time, night or day. That’s why there’s no time stipulated – it apples 24/7.

      I’ve seen this advice given here often, and it seems remarkably unhelpful. It is totally unrealistic that strata occupants can NEVER make noise in their apartments if there is a valid reason (eg. renovations). If it makes no difference when the work occurs as you are indicating, does that mean the OP should also complain even if the work was occurring at 2pm on a workday? Where do we make allowances for give and take and acceptance of short term inconveniences, and the realities of modern day living?  

      #15511
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        @nettle said:


        @JimmyT
        said:
         In short, your neighbour can’t make a noise that disrupts the peaceful enjoyment of a lot (if you have that by-law) at any time, night or day. That’s why there’s no time stipulated – it apples 24/7.

        I’ve seen this advice given here often, and it seems remarkably unhelpful. It is totally unrealistic that strata occupants can NEVER make noise in their apartments if there is a valid reason (eg. renovations). If it makes no difference when the work occurs as you are indicating, does that mean the OP should also complain even if the work was occurring at 2pm on a workday? Where do we make allowances for give and take and acceptance of short term inconveniences, and the realities of modern day living?  

        If you could just get off your high horse for a minute, who said you could NEVER make any noise EVER?  Who said there would be no give and take?  Who said you’d be pulled up for making any noise at 2pm?

        You can find reams of material on this Forum about reaching compromises with your neighbours.  But buildings have to have these basic rules to suit their circumstances before they reach compromises otherwise people would just do what they wanted.

        The problem is when you get some numpty moving into a building and bleating about their “rights” to have their hobby renovations going on all evening and all weekend when everyone else is trying to relax. Apartments are not houses.  If you want the same freedoms as you have in a house, the answer is simple – go and live in one.  You can’t import quarter-acre values to apartments.  It’s like buying a car and complaining it doesn’t float as well as a boat.

        Often these DIY renos go on forever because the renovator either doesn’t have the money or doesn’t know what they are doing or both,  which means that many of them are far from a “short-term inconvenience”.

        You’re right about give and take – only for some people it means everyone else gives and they take.  My building is far from perfect but if you want to do renovations you have to have a proper schedule and that includes limited periods during which noisy work must be done – negotiated with the building manager and notified to other owners  – and if you can’t get it done in that time, that’s your problem. You’d be amazed how many tradesmen can suddenly fit all their hammer drilling (for instance) into a short period when they’re told the alternative is that they won’t get the contract.

        Of course there will be noise and dust during the day, but you can’t expect to improve the value of your home at everyone else’s expense simply because you’d rather not pay for professionals to do the job quickly and efficiently.

        DIY renovations may occasionally be a valid reason for breaking noise rules – but when they impact on too many people too often and for too long, they are simply selfish and self-indulgent.

        Hope that was sufficiently helpful.

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #15514
        FlatChatFan
        Flatchatter

          @JimmyT said:


          @JimmyT
          said:
           

          If you could just get off your high horse for a minute, who said you could NEVER make any noise EVER?  Who said there would be no give and take?  Who said you’d be pulled up for making any noise at 2pm?

          You can find reams of material on this Forum about reaching compromises with your neighbours.  But buildings have to have these basic rules to suit their circumstances before they reach compromises otherwise people would just do what they wanted.

          The problem is when you get some numpty moving into a building and bleating about their “rights” to have their hobby renovations going on all evening and all weekend when everyone else is trying to relax. Apartments are not houses.  If you want the same freedoms as you have in a house, the answer is simple – go and live in one.  You can’t import quarter-acre values to apartments.  It’s like buying a car and complaining it doesn’t float as well as a boat.

          Often these DIY renos go on forever because the renovator either doesn’t have the money or doesn’t know what they are doing or both,  which means that many of them are far from a “short-term inconvenience”.

          You’re right about give and take – only for some people it means everyone else gives and they take.  My building is far from perfect but if you want to do renovations you have to have a proper schedule and that includes limited periods during which noisy work must be done – negotiated with the building manager and notified to other owners  – and if you can’t get it done in that time, that’s your problem. You’d be amazed how many tradesmen can suddenly fit all their hammer drilling (for instance) into a short period when they’re told the alternative is that they won’t get the contract.

          Of course there will be noise and dust during the day, but you can’t expect to improve the value of your home at everyone else’s expense simply because you’d rather not pay for professionals to do the job quickly and efficiently.

          DIY renovations may occasionally be a valid reason for breaking noise rules – but when they impact on too many people too often and for too long, they are simply selfish and self-indulgent.

          Hope that was sufficiently helpful.

          SmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

          #15515
          FlatChatFan
          Flatchatter

            @nettle said:


            @JimmyT
            said:
             In short, your neighbour can’t make a noise that disrupts the peaceful enjoyment of a lot (if you have that by-law) at any time, night or day. That’s why there’s no time stipulated – it apples 24/7.

            I’ve seen this advice given here often, and it seems remarkably unhelpful. It is totally unrealistic that strata occupants can NEVER make noise in their apartments if there is a valid reason (eg. renovations). If it makes no difference when the work occurs as you are indicating, does that mean the OP should also complain even if the work was occurring at 2pm on a workday? Where do we make allowances for give and take and acceptance of short term inconveniences, and the realities of modern day living?  

            Your sure are ‘prickly’ nettle!

            I am not sure who or what an “OP” is, but if you mean “OC”, or Owners Corporation, if you are an “owner” then you are part of the OC.

            (Some people who post to the Forum seem to believe that the “OC” is a big boogyman who wants to make the lives of the residents miserable.)

            Jimmy has made it very clear that over a 24 hour (one whole day and night) “Owners” need to be sure that  all their neighbours can have “peaceful enjoyment” in their living space.

            As he said, there is recognition that work will need to be done, but other Owners need to have an idea of the noisy times, so they can plan to be out of the way (if they are mobile enough) when it is very noisy/dirty/dusty.

            If I know that a job will take three days and there will be a team of professionals getting on with the job, then that is one thing.

            It is a whole other thing if another owner just decides that this or that needs doing right now, and goes at it with drill, hammer, or other noisy, smelly process, with little or no warning.

            #15520
            scotlandx
            Strataguru

              OP means Original Poster. 

               

              Otherwise Jimmy and FlatChatFan are right, if you live in an apartment building you need to take that into account when you are planning to do something that may cause a racket.  The key consideration is reasonableness, i.e. what is reasonable – and that is something that needs to be considered by both parties.  Provided someone plans a renovation properly, gives notice to all the residents and keeps any noise between certain hours, it would be unreasonable for the residents to prevent those renovations occurring.

              In this case I would be asking if the downstairs neighbour has sought approval for his renovations, if he hasn’t then you may be able to stop him, depending on what he is doing.  It is a standard condition of OC approval of renovations that work only be carried out on certain days between certain hours. 

              #15524

              Hi again, Les, the… err… OP here and Nettle, this goes out to you. Thanks to others for your help and advice.

              Imagine… you sit down to dinner with your wife and 7 year old kid plus your mother-in-law. It’s about 7:15pm on an otherwise quiet week night and… GGGRRRRIIIINNNNDDDD… the bloke two floors down is drilling in his wall again. Everyone just about jumps to the ceiling. The kid drops a soup spoon in fright.

              The bloke downstairs works 9 to 5. He moved in about two months ago and has been fixing the place up to his and his wife’s liking ever since then, in the evenings and weekends.

              At his neighbours’ request, he has been asked by the Strata Manager to warn them when hammering or drilling is going to occur and a general letter has been placed on the notice board mentioning the council rules (inadequate) and what the Act and by-laws say about ‘peaceful enjoyment’. Additionally he has been personally asked to stop hammering at about 7pm on another night.

              He he polite and affable but he JUST DOESN’T GET that his home handyman renovations out-of-hours are ruining things for everyone else.

              #15536

              Or….he does….and doesn’t care!

              CBF Wink

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