• Creator
    Topic
  • #9652
    claire
    Flatchatter

      Hi – we applied for mediation with our executive committee, they refused and so now i am preparing to submit my application for adjudication.

      We moved into our block in May, our application to keep our dog was bluntly refused – the grounds being that the block had been pet free for some time and also that to allow us would be unreasonable to people they have said no to in the past – we feel that their response is unreasonable and as they refuse to talk to us we cannot gain a better or constructive understanding of their reasons.

      We haven’t had any complaints about our dog since we moved in and haven’t had any issues with residents we have met while we’ve been arriving / leaving for a walk.

      The strata manager is massively frustrating – he is acting on behalf of and siding with the EC – we have continulousy chased him for responses – his last one being that ‘if and when the EC decide to take this matter to court he will inform us’ – it was this that prompted us to apply for mediation, and now adjudication, as we don’t want this threat hanging over us – if they won’t give us approval then take us to court, don’t keep us guessing as to whether its ever going to happen!!!

      The other thing is that I found out yesterday that the Strata Manager has sent a letter to all the other residents – the lady who told me said that she didn’t open it as it was addressed to her landlord but a member of the EC told her that it was about us having a dog – are they allowed to send letters out concerning us, without letting us know or being able to read what they have written? Do i have any rights to ask the Strata Manager to send me a copy of the letter – we cannot trust what has been said about us or the situation – and i can’t imagine its going to be in our favour – are they canvassing for complaints?

      My pack to the adjudicator is going to consist of the email trail we have had since May, our dogs CV which was sent to the EC, a copy of the strata by-laws, a log of when i first tried to call the Strata Office and being told its wasn’t a strictly no-pet policy – and then a cover letter outlining our situation – since we have moved in our dog is never off her lead on common property and has never been allowed on the gardens – is it beneficial to include things like that?

      Any advise would be massively appreciated :-)

    Viewing 10 replies - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)
    • Author
      Replies
    • #22152
      Cosmo
      Flatchatter

        Claire, I think you will find that the EC feels a bit defensive by and feel you did the wrong thing by moving in and then asking for permission.  The correct procedure would have been to ask before you moved in.  You probably need to show a bit of remorse for not following the correct procedure.

        I think the EC should provide you with reasons which you can dispute. The issue is whether the approval was ‘unreasonably’ denied.

        #21862
        claire
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          Hi again Cosmos – I can’t help but have a smile to myself at your suggestions of the remorse and contrition I should feel and show

          We did ask for permission before moving in – we have asked on numerous occasions to meet with and talk to the EC – we applied for mediation, which was refused – we have driven all communication and chased continuously for replies – I don’t see what more we could have done.

          It baffles me that if ECs want pet free blocks why don’t they change the by-laws to reflect this? If it had been a no pet policy we would never have progressed further than purchasing the strata report.

          #21861
          Sir Humphrey
          Strataguru

            Which state is this in? In the ACT, and I think some other states, a unit owner may only allow an animal to be kept with the owners corporation’s consent but that is balanced by an obligation on the OC that consent must not be unreasonably withheld. Bylaws/rules/articles can only have effect in such circumstance if they are consistent with the Act. EG. It might be reasonable to exclude unusually large exotic or dangerous animals or more than some number of animals. It would not be reasonable to have a no pets policy. It might be reasonable to require animals to be confined to the unit area and only allowed on common property under the supervision and control of a responsible person. 

            #22157
            Jimmy-T
            Keymaster

              This is a classic case of an EC that’s too lazy to check their own by-laws and make sure they reflect what their community wants.

              The default model by-law says, as has been discussed, that you can’t have a pet without permission and permission can’t be unreasonably refused.

              As we have pointed out many times in Flat Chat, saying that you have never allowed pets is not “reasonable” grounds for refusal becasue the by-law still allows pets, albeit under certain conditions.

              In this instance, I suspect Claire has a pretty strong case to take to Fair Trading and NCAT (especially since the EC has refused to mediate).  But this is an object lesson for Owners Corps that really don’t want pets in their buildings.  Your by-laws have to reflect that and if you don’t have the support to change the by-law, then maybe the EC is out of step with its owners.

              The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
              #22159
              Blueman
              Flatchatter

                Well, why have these sort of model by-laws in the first place? What was discussed when the scheme was first set-up? If the government meant for it to be a free-for-all on the matter, then there would be no need for the model by-law to exist.

                #22162
                Jimmy-T
                Keymaster

                  @Blueman said:
                  Well, why have these sort of model by-laws in the first place? What was discussed when the scheme was first set-up? If the government meant for it to be a free-for-all on the matter, then there would be no need for the model by-law to exist.

                  There is no free-for-all.  It sounds in this case like there is a model by-law in place that says you can only have a pet if you have permission but that permission can’t unreasonably be refused.

                  Strata owners have the opportunity to adopt  a different by-law by a simple majority vote at their first AGM or by a special resolution at any general meeting.

                  The problem in this case is that the EC has kept a by-law that allows pets conditionally but have pursued a policy of no pets under any circumstances. That is unreasonable if only because new purchasers are being misled into thinking there was a chance they might be allowed to have pets.

                  All it would require would be a change of personnel on an EC and you could find the same building allowing pets without conditions.

                  Among proposed changes that died with the postponement of the strata law reforms were one that changed the model by-law to saying pets were allowed unless there were reasonable objections and another that demanded owners review their by-laws every few years.

                  But, honestly, any executive committee that bumbles along, bending its by-laws out of shape because “we’ve always done it this way”, can expect to get slapped in the face with the wet fish of reality sooner or later. 

                  Read your by-laws.  If they don’t clearly state what the majority of owners in your building want, change them.  It’s as simple as that.

                  The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                  #22164
                  Blueman
                  Flatchatter

                    Who’s to say that in this case the refusal was unreasonable? Just because the application was rejected, does not make it unreasonable. The OP states the block had been pet free from some time.

                    If the existing owners wanted to allow pets they could introduce a bylaw for that purpose, it seems they haven’t. Seems by refusing applications the majority of existing owners don’t want pets.

                    If the existing owners wanted to allow pets and were unhappy with the decisions of the existing EC, they could change the EC at the appropriate meeting, but they haven’t done that either.

                    JT, our bylaws do attempt to address this issue, but they make no mention of horses, cattle, pigs, goats, fish, snakes, lizards, spiders, cockroaches or a whole heap of other animals, etc.

                    #22166
                    Jimmy-T
                    Keymaster

                      @Blueman said:
                      Who’s to say that in this case the refusal was unreasonable? Just because the application was rejected, does not make it unreasonable. The OP states the block had been pet free from some time.

                      If the existing owners wanted to allow pets they could introduce a bylaw for that purpose, it seems they haven’t. Seems by refusing applications the majority of existing owners don’t want pets.

                      If the existing owners wanted to allow pets and were unhappy with the decisions of the existing EC, they could change the EC at the appropriate meeting, but they haven’t done that either.

                      JT, our bylaws do attempt to address this issue, but they make no mention of horses, cattle, pigs, goats, fish, snakes, lizards, spiders, cockroaches or a whole heap of other animals, etc.

                      You are missing the point.  The model by-law says pets can’t be allowed without the permission of the EC. Which effectively means pets CAN be allowed WITH the permission of the EC.

                      It then says that permission can’t unreasonably be refused.

                      So what is unreasonable? Saying “we have never allowed pets” is not a reason … it’s a statement of previous decisions.  A reasonable purchaser might reasonably assume that their pets would be allowed if there was no reason – eg, they didn’t cause a nuisance or were too big or dangerous or smelly or whatever – to refuse.

                      Your sarcasm is misplaced. Try applying reason to your arguments and you may see where they are flawed. And ask yourself why you have a by-law that addresses pets when you seem to think you don’t need one.

                      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                      #22172
                      Blueman
                      Flatchatter

                        I am well aware of the NSW model bylaws

                        http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ssma1996242/sch1.html

                        So assuming this case is in NSW, in my opinion based on the information provided by the OP, the schemes EC has acted reasonably in this matter.

                        #22170
                        Jimmy-T
                        Keymaster


                          @Blueman
                          said:
                          I am well aware of the NSW model bylaws. So assuming this case is in NSW, in my opinion based on the information provided by the OP, the schemes EC has acted reasonably in this matter.

                           … and assuming these are the model by-laws in place.  Even so, any reasonable person would read the model by-laws to mean that they were allowed to have a pet provided they could get permission.  And the by-law states that permission could not be unreasonably refused.

                          And the original poster has a well-behaved pet and they look after it properly – they had had no specific complaints about the dog’s behaviour – so there is no reason to refuse it, except for prejudice and dumb ignorance of the way strata schemes and by-laws work.

                          You are entitled to your opinion, Blueman, but I would hate any reader of these posts to think that the model by-law that essentially allows pets, employed in conjunction with a history of refusal of companion animals, would prevent owners from bringing pets into a strata scheme.  It doesn’t, regardless of what you think.

                          My advice to Flatchatters is this: If you want to prevent people from ever bringing any pets into your scheme, pass a by-law that says “no pets”.  Don’t depend on a by-law that actually allows pets under certain conditions.  It really is as simple as that and lazy ECs that can’t be bothered to change their by-laws to reflect the wishes of the majority of owners deserve all the trouble they get.

                          The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                        Viewing 10 replies - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)
                        • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.