Flat Chat Strata Forum Strata Committees Current Page

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #9057
    AH1.Cobra
    Flatchatter

      Our Executive Committee has called an Extraordinary General Meeting with notices being issued by our Strata Manager where they want us to vote to approve two important projects, one being a big budget job. It’s to do with landscaping and parking and worth about 70 grand, which is all we’ve been told. Plans for this came with the notice and agenda but no quotes or any indication of costs at all.

      I phoned the Strata Manager and he says he doesn’t have any quotes and the Executive Committee are keeping the cost details to themselves and will provide them at the meeting. 

      The problem with that is, our meetings are nearly always badly attended and the clique controls things by proxies of non-attendee, apathetic owners. So they will have the meeting stacked and the project will most likely get approved. 

      We are a block of 30 units and a bit run-down; the work needs to be done but I feel things should be more above-board. I feel quotes should have been sent out with the agenda as the big money involved at this ‘Extraordinary’ meeting would have certainly piqued owners’ interests and they would be more likely to want to be involved.

      What should I do, please? I’m not really the type to knock on doors or phone people I don’t know even if I had their details. Should I, for example, write a stern letter to the Strata Manager and Committee expressing my feelings and threaten to take them to the Office of Fair Trading or The Consumer Trader and Tenancy Tribunal or something, if the spending and project is approved in dubious circumstances?

       

    Viewing 12 replies - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)
    • Author
      Replies
    • #19609
      Whale
      Flatchatter

        Cobra – I’m sorry but the best approach in the circumstances you describe is the one that you’re reluctant to follow, and that’s to write a letter to each resident owner outlining what you’ve stated here (only) about insufficient information being provided with the EGM Agenda, and to then deliver that; personally is ideal but under the applicable entry doors is next best lest it be seen as junk mail in letterboxes.

        If that doesn’t as you say pique interest, then as the proposed landscaping would constitute an alteration and/or an addition to the Common Property and the parking works may be (depending upon the specifics), then the Agenda Item concerned should be calling for a “Special Resolution” as opposed to an “Ordinary Resolution”.

        I said to (only) mention the matter of insufficient information in your letter, because if it doesn’t stir the apathetic, then as much as I hate being half-smart, it may be prudent in the circumstances for you to let the vote proceed. Then if it goes the wrong way in your assessment and it’s improperly resolved by a simple majority instead of by way of that “Special Resolution”, by a minimum 75% being in favour as determined from the lot unit entitlements of those in attendance ÷ the Plan’s aggregate entitlement as I believe it should be, then request the Chair to rule the entire Motion out-of-order; OR…..

        On the other hand you could be properly smart by letting the vote proceed, and if as I suspect it’s put as an “Ordinary Resolution” and thereby improperly determined by a simple majority vote and you’re dissatisfied and/or you can substantiate a position of “dubious circumstances” where a properly put Motion and more notice / details of the costs involved in agreement would likely have given a different outcome (vote), then you could seek Orders under S153 of the NSW Strata Schemes Management Act (1996) to invalidate the vote.

        #19610
        AH1.Cobra
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          It’s put as a Special Resolution, thank you very much Whale for being so fast, along with two others.

          Would a complaint after the meeting about “dubious circumstances” hold water if it got through on inappropriate proxies, do you think?

          (If you’re curious about he other two Special Resolutions, one is banning smoking and the other is about solar panels, the latter also seems on the dodgy side.)

          #19612
          Whale
          Flatchatter

            Damn, I was too sure that your Strata Manager wouldn’t have been aware of that requirement. 

            I (and others) can’t comment on the proxies; ‘farming’ those might be dubious but it’s not illegal so is there anything else inappropriate about them?

            #19617
            Sir Humphrey
            Strataguru

              Following is a bit of a rant/grumble which may well not apply to your case, so please don’t take offence. I mean it more as a general comment from an EC member who has seen such comments frequently. You have just provided one example:

              As someone who has been on the other side of this sort of thing I find myself wondering about whether there might be more to this. It all sounds rather familiar. I have been on an EC that proposed or is proposing changes to landscaping, a solar project and rules (bylaw) changes. The EC did all the leg work ourselves so the managing agent would not have known a great deal of detail. Frankly it was frustrating to provide quite a bit of information, repeatedly, and to still have people complain that we had failed to communicate. The trouble was that some people can’t be bothered to read material sent to them, won’t talk to us, but are quick to say we don’t communicate. Other times we have called meetings so that people can hear and discuss and debate etc. and we get a complaint at that meeting that we are not consulting, all while failing to grasp that the point of the meeting is to hear the proposal, ideas and reactions. 

              It seems the only consultation that is sufficient for some people is for EC members to knock on every door for one on one conversations, which is not easy with over 100 units. 

              You say that plans for the landscaping work were distributed with the meeting notice along with the cost. That does not sound so bad. Perhaps the EC does have quotes but didn’t give them to the manager? Perhaps the EC has not got formal quotes because it does not know if there is support to do the work but has made sufficient enquiries to be confident that $70K would be ample? A vote at the meeting might be approval to go ahead with works up to a certain cost? Perhaps in discussion they expect to have at the meeting it will become obvious that they have developed a good plan with a clear idea about likely costs? Perhaps the EC expects that it is obvious, especially with only 30 units, that anyone with questions before the meeting could just ask them, and did not think it necessary to point this out? Presumably they don’t live far away. We have had owners distribute letters to all other owners accusing the EC of all sorts of dodginess that was undeserved but they would not just come and talk to us to explain their concerns or just ask more about the various proposals. 

              Before distributing letters to all owners I suggest you talk directly to your neighbours, especially the EC members. Especially in smaller complexes talking can’t be too hard. If talking still leaves you with misgivings about the proposals, then write to all owners, or better still talk to them.

              #19619
              Jimmy-T
              Keymaster

                The thing about apathy is that … well, nobody cares.

                But seriously, this is a special resolution and if you can’t muster 25% of ‘no’ votes  from the generally disgruntled, parsimonious, bilious and disaffected in your scheme, maybe the majority of people who do care think it’s a good idea.

                But direct contact, flyers, posters on the noticeboard and letters to owners can work wonders – and make sure to include proxy forms. Any new proxies you get will supersede any existing proxies the EC has from those owners.

                The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                #19621
                Sir Humphrey
                Strataguru

                  Yes, I know from bitter experience that it is easy to knock over a special resolution. A concerted campaign to round up a sufficient minority of ‘no’ votes does not need to do much more than assert that there are ‘questions to be answered’. No matter that in our OC the questions had been answered in the detailed written proposal. People seem to pay far more attention to someone talking than a carefully prepared written proposal mailed to owners. 

                  Of course, the proposal originally raised here might have insufficient information and it might be a lousy proposal. If that is case it should be easy to defeat: 30 owners. Say 20 take part in the meeting. All you need to find is 4 others in whom you can sow just enough doubt that they give you a proxy to say no. 

                  Still, I would urge you to find out if it might actually be a good proposal by talking directly to EC members. Perhaps they just were not so good at writing the proposal? Perhaps they don’t realise that various merits of the proposal are not obvious, and things they thought would go without saying actually do need saying?

                  #19622
                  Jimmy-T
                  Keymaster

                    I agree. Just because a group of people has the power to push through a bad proposal it doesn’t mean all the proposals they push through are all bad.

                    The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                    #19623
                    Jimmy-T
                    Keymaster

                      I agree. Just because a group of people has the power to push through a bad proposal it doesn’t mean all the proposals they push through are all bad.

                      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                      #19626
                      AH1.Cobra
                      Flatchatter
                      Chat-starter

                        There were no costs in writing supplied with the EGM agenda and plans. There was a reply to a question over the phone to the SM that the project would cost ‘upwards of 70 grand’. Sorry if I misled you, kind contributors.

                        Just to repeat, in a sense, there’s a clique traditionally holding lots of proxies which keep others off the EC and out of the process. There’s a history. They cynically try to slip things like this through, most of the time to STOP stuff being done rather than, in this instance, to get stuff done. Most owners have gotten tired and given up trying to be involved, blindly handing over their proxies and the place has generally gone downhill as a result. The SM, only when lent on, will stop stuff that is blatantly beyond the pale. Such as at the last Annual General Meeting when the EC wanted the meeting to ‘approve’ an addition to the agenda, on the night, to spend up to 40 grand the get started, with no plans circulated and no quote circulated. So, yes, this is their second go and they still ‘don’t get it’.

                        But I’ve said too much.

                        There are any number of things wrong here, including money being wasted all over the place you’ll just have to take my word for it.

                        I really was interested in how to stop this meeting, stop the steamroller, until everything is out in the open and enough owners really know what’s going to be done and how much it will cost. Only seems the right thing to me.

                        #19629
                        Whale
                        Flatchatter

                          Cobra – as a number of learned contributors have suggested, the best way to “stop the steamroller” is to by whatever means obtain the support of a sufficient number of like-minded Owners to defeat the Special Resolutions.

                          That a mere 26% of whatever number of Owners will attend the Meeting both personally and by proxy, and remember that the vote must be determined as a percentage calculation of the lot unit entitlements (LUE) of those in attendance and the aggregate LUE of your Scheme.

                          Surely that’s achievable in the current and historical circumstances you’ve described!  

                           

                          #19630
                          scotlandx
                          Strataguru

                            I do have issues with resolutions being put up with insufficient detail and perhaps that is how you need to tackle it.

                            If a resolution has been put up for an EGM with plans, they have managed to get the plans done and go to the trouble of calling an EGM. 

                            First question  – why does an EGM have to be called, what is so urgent about it?

                            Second – if they have the time to do the plans, why can’t they get quotes?  If there is no quote, are you approving the plans in principle, subject to receipt of the quotes?  On the face of it, that is what it sounds like.

                            Third – if the EC has the quote/quotes then to me that calls into question validity of any resolution, as proper notice has not been given to all owners, including those owners who won’t or can’t attend the meeting.  You can’t just pull the quote out at the meeting and say here it is, because a number of people may provide proxies on the basis on what was sent to them.

                             

                            Does the resolution provide for approval of the works and the expenditure?  They are two separate things.  I don’t believe it could, because there is no quote provided with the notice. 

                             

                            I suggest you have a few avenues:

                            – move a motion to amend the resolution at the meeting, that the project be approved in principle, subject to receipt of quotes and approval of the amount to be spent on it by the owners at a general meeting

                            – is there any limit on the EC’s expenditure that has been set at a previous meeting?  If there is and it is less than the amount they propose to spend, then they can’t proceed without approval of the amount at a general meeting.

                            – get out there, grit your teeth, find enough owners to get more than 25% of the vote, and do something about it.

                            More generally – I agree with PeterC.  We had our AGM the other night.  Setting aside the brawl between 2 owners at the end, it was remarkably uneventful.  I had put up a number of special resolutions for by-laws that I thought would not get up but they did, because no-one read them and only a third of owners attended.  In my own experience, “lack of consultation” often means – “I don’t like it”, taking into account that a matter has been before both a general meeting and numerous EC meetings, of which the complainant is a member.

                            #19632
                            AH1.Cobra
                            Flatchatter
                            Chat-starter

                              This all such excellent comment, thanks everyone. 

                              To adapt a popular saying, ‘if something seems really wrong, it probably is’ and that’s the case here, in my view. I think I’ll grit my teeth and get out there, as Scotlandx advises; go and ‘discover’ the owners’ addresses in the strata’s files and send them a polite letter or put it under their door if they live on site, as Whale suggests.

                              I might put it to the Strata Manager and Chairman and Secretary, that the meeting be put off until we have the full picture, unless someone wants to head me off at the pass.

                              Thanks so much again.

                            Viewing 12 replies - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)
                            • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

                            Flat Chat Strata Forum Strata Committees Current Page