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13/12/2012 at 7:08 pm #8597
Dear Flat Chat
We own a unit in a block of twelve that we rent out and recently, a fellow unit owner complained to our strata manager that our tenants were parking bicycles on common property (chained to a balustrade to the rear of the property, not in a parking spot, close to the clothes line), and thereby breaching by-law #3 “An owner or occupier of a lot must not obstruct lawful use of common property by any person”. The request was for the manager to “address the issue” and so a letter was sent to our tenants threatening a fine and indicating breach of tenancy agreement.
My question is this – what defines obstruction, and is it not reasonable to park bicycles to the rear of the property? Would they rather our tenants drag the bikes up 3 flights of carpeted internal stairs to their unit instead?
Yours,
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14/12/2012 at 8:31 am #17387
If the bikes were chained to the rail of a stair well (for example) in a way that could obstruct access it would seem the complaint is reasonable and the by-law would apply. If the bikes are in an unobtrusive location, not preventing anybody from using the clothes line or doing anything else people do in that bit of the common property, I can’t see that this by-law applies.
14/12/2012 at 2:15 pm #17389AnonymousNo, PeterC, this by-law may not apply, strictly speaking. But where do you start and stop in a situation like this?
What if there were a few more changes in tenancy and a couple more bikes for each unit? Can they all be allowed to be chained up round the common areas?
I reckon timilla should not be an uncaring absentee landlord and have the tenants play by he rules. It’s not hard for someone fit enough to ride a bike to carry it up stairs. Jerry Seinfeld does it in New York. I’m guessing they would rather clutter up the common property than their own apartment.
15/12/2012 at 9:15 am #17394Blue Swimmer said:
It’s not hard for someone fit enough to ride a bike to carry it up stairs. Jerry Seinfeld does it in New York. I’m guessing they would rather clutter up the common property than their own apartment.
Really? Like parking them on their balcony, perhaps? Always an attractive look.
Actually, this feeds into the discussion HERE about the wisdom (or otherwise) of letting things go.
Any building these days should have a safe and secure area for parking bikes. Timilla should lobby her EC and Owners Corp for the provision of one since there is an obvious need.
Having bikes chained to railings isn’t the greatest crime in strata (especially if they aren’t actually obstructing anyone) but neither is it ideal for the reasons mentioned by Blue Swimmer.
If there is a genuine obstruction of the passageway, they should be parked somewhere else. If not, and they aren’t breaching any other by-law, the bikes should be left alone until such time as the Owners Corp provides a bike rack.
One other point, Timilla clearly isn’t an ‘absentee landlord’ – he or she is around and taking an interest and, for my money, there’s nothing wrong with owners sticking up for their tenants when they think they are right.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
15/12/2012 at 11:41 am #17395The revision of By-Law 3 that’s provided in the 2010 Regulation to the NSW Strata Schemes Management Act (1996) adds the words “except on a temporary and non-recurring basis”, and therein lies a hint that even the Legislators are softening the application of that By-Law.
Right now though your Plan’s version of By-Law 3 is the unsoftened version, and whilst PeterC’s right (post #2), an “obstruction” could be in the eyes of whoever it is who doesn’t see it and consequently bumps into it and/or falls over it, and further, your tenants really shouldn’t be chaining their bicycles to a balustrade any more than they should be dragging them up three flights of carpeted stairs; both have the potential to damage Common Property.
So I think that your tenants would be foolish to not follow the Owners Corporation’s (O/C) advice (that’s what it is) as issued by its Strata Manager to the effect that they should comply with the By-Law.
A possible solution? Well bear in mind that the issuing of a fine is a maybe that’s a very long way from where matters are presently, but in addition to lobbying your O/C as Jimmy T suggests you and your tenants need to do something now about the current situation.
I’d suggest you immediately write to your Strata Managers, who work for you remember, acknowledging the advice provided to your tenants, “sticking up for them” by pointing out that bicycles are increasing becoming some peoples’ preferred mode of transport, and to request that the Managers immediately confer with your Executive Committee about nominating a location on the Common Property where residents’ bicycles may be safely left and where they will not cause an obstruction to others. If you or your tenants know of such a location, then by all means suggest that in your letter.
You should meet with your tenants to provide them with a copy of that letter, and to make whatever short-term arrangements are necessary for them to safely store their bicycles off the Common Property pending a response from your Executive Committee. Could they perhaps manoeuvre their bicycles within the carspace allocated to your Unit albeit on a temporary basis and store them there?
We had a similar problem in our Plan a few years back, and the E/C did in fact advise our residents of a safe position under a carpark light on the Common property for the temporary “parking” of bicycles until the next AGM approved the purchase and permanent installation of a heavy-duty galvanised 10 bicycle rack at that same location. By the way, it’s been very well used ever since which all goes to show that strata residents will do the right thing if they have a choice and they know what it (the right thing) is!
25/01/2013 at 8:57 am #17674What’s the views on our issue re bicycles on common property?
Our building (a converted warehouse) is 140 years old and has no garden or outdoor common property. There is no room in our basement car park for a bike rack – most residents park their bikes in their car space (every apartment has at least 1 car space). But in one entrance to the building there is an area under a stairwell that is starting to be used by some of the residents for bike parking. First 1 bike, then 2 and yesterday there were 3. And also a child’s car seat. The bikes and car seat are not blocking anything – but they look a bit messy (but I suppose ‘messy’ is subjective – but one of the bikes is pretty shabby – with a flat tyre and all). This is the main entrance area for 8 apartments. The bikes are starting to damage the wall paint too – where they are leaned against the wall.
We’d have room to install a small bike rack under these stairs – for perhaps 4 bikes. First in gets to use it? But should we do it? It might just make an irritation worse – by encouraging more bike parking in this area – meaning a more ‘messy’ appearance and wall damage. I suppose we can ban it all together and say park your bikes in the car park and not in the stairwell.
Thoughts?
28/01/2013 at 10:37 am #17692As each Lot in your Plan has at least one carspace, other than for reasons of being too lazy to walk from there to the buiilding’s entry, there’s no reason why all residents with bicycles couldn’t use their carspace for the storage of those.
I would certainly put a stop to the practice of residents storing their bicycles under the stairwell, because as you said, it looks messy, it’s damaging the Common Property, and all that will certainly get worse unless your Plan’s Executive Committee puts a stop to it; with a barrier if necessary.
The only issue is the security of those bicycles that are stored in carspaces, particularly as you advise there’s no no garden or outdoor Common Property available for a communal bike storage.
So if that’s the case, your Owners Corporation could facilitate residents’ bicycle use and the proper storage of those by resolving to select a style of single bike security rack that suits the layout of the carspaces, making that the “standard” for the Plan, and then offering to supply and install that rack in the carspaces of bicycle-riding residents, as an alternative to them storing their bicycles under the stairwell or elsewhere.
In that way your O/C maintains some control over the style and standard of bike-racks, and how/where they’re installed within Proprietors’ carspaces; and that’s not a bad thing!
Even though a decent single-bike rack could be supplied and installed for under $100, there are 140 Lots in your Plan, so the O/C would need to plan on a defined number of installations per year.
You could seek a contribution from interested Proprietors or Tenants, but the former is paying anyway via their levies and the latter would probably want a refund at the end of their tenancy; too messy!
28/01/2013 at 2:17 pm #17694I agree with Whale, the last thing I would want to see in the foyer/common property is a collection of bikes, joined by prams and car seats, then followed by whatever other stuff people don’t want to store somewhere else. By the way I don’t have anything against bicycles.
My next door neighbour has a bike, she keeps it in her apartment – we are on the second floor. Not all of the lots here have carspaces but I still don’t think the foyer is the place to be keeping stuff like that.
28/01/2013 at 8:03 pm #17696Agree with scotlandx and whale but we have a difficult one. Even though there have been several babies born here over the last 10 years, nobody has ever been so presumptuous as to leave strollers or prams in the halls or under the stairs. Until now.
The Secretary of the EC, who already takes some liberties as he thinks he’s special, leaves their stroller under the stairs even though he has a lock up garage about 5 metres away. Other residents think this is unfair and taking advantage of his position but he won’t hear of that and plays the ‘new baby’ card. What do we do?
30/01/2013 at 2:18 pm #17717Further to my two paragraphs below about a stroller under the stairs, not in the lock–up garage 5 metres away, now there are two. Shouldn’t something be done? I’m afraid ‘zero tolerance’ for this sort of thing might be the only unfortunate way.
30/01/2013 at 7:18 pm #17716Yes I think so. Are you on the EC?
31/01/2013 at 11:17 am #17735In answer to scotlandx, and thanks, I am not currently on the Executive Committee but once was. As alluded to below, our building has quite a few of the problems I have read about on Flat Chat including a proxy a five year old proxy situation protecting the Executive Committee which is a mixture of self-interest and lcck-of-interest.
31/01/2013 at 8:48 pm #17744Hi All, we recently had some great bike racks installed on CP in car park, some on floor, some on walls. In different unused areas. Not everyone has a car park but perhaps some out of the way area? These are used and have been very useful for people without space in their lot to store bikes. I think we paid around $5,000 for storage of 20 bikes in groups of 2,4 and 6 . Money well spent. The thing is with storing stuff in CP foyers and stairwells that apart from looking ugly and cluttered there are fire and safety issues.
Heaps of different storage issues out there especially wall space for all sorts of stuff!
Cheers CBF
01/02/2013 at 1:13 pm #17750Well I am on the EC and as well as the bikes and child’s car seat under the stairwell, we’ve had one or two prams parked near one of the street entrance doors. None of the above are blocking anything. I’m thinking too we might look at wall or ceiling bike racks in the car park – but we really have almost no spare space there even to do that!
I’ve put it on the agenda for our next EC meeting but I’m really not sure too much can be done. Everyone has a right to use the common property. Is parking a bike or a pram on common property considered exclusive use? They are not locked or chained to anything. I can’t see how they are a fire hazard in themselves unless they are blocking an exit path. They might be considered an eyesore and clutter. The bikes also might be leaving some marks on the wall, but the prams don’t. There’s 20 steps to take the pram up the pram owner’s apartment – so I can see why they’d want to leave it near the street door.
If we ban the bikes (eg claiming that they damage common property), the owners might say ‘but you allow prams’. If we ban the prams too we might look pretty mean, so we’d need to have good reasons. And I’m not sure we (the EC) can just ban prams, if they are not blocking any path and are not damaging common property. We (the OC) do have the right to make a rule “for the purpose of the control, management, administration, use or enjoyment of the common property or of a lot.” But that needs a Special Resolution.
03/02/2013 at 10:42 pm #17765Yes everyone has the right to use common property, but not to store personal items. If someone leaves a bike in the foyer, does that mean I can leave a piece of furniture, or a suitcase? If a scheme wants to allow it, fine, but you are likely to end up with a very messy property.
04/02/2013 at 8:48 am #17766@scotlandx said:
Yes everyone has the right to use common property, but not to store personal items. If someone leaves a bike in the foyer, does that mean I can leave a piece of furniture, or a suitcase? If a scheme wants to allow it, fine, but you are likely to end up with a very messy property.Totally agree. And hence the problem. At what point does parking a bike or pram become ‘storing‘ a bike or pram?
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