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Hi All
This is a grizzle, hope you all don’t mind. I am in Sydney. I am two years into a long term dispute with my Committee. $30,000 down the drain and more expense to come. Probably looking at $60,000 by the time I get to the tribunal. Whether I am judged right or wrong by the tribunal I truly believe this System is geared against the individual and leans far too heavily on relying on Committees and owners and Strata Managers doing the right thing when we all know from reading the forum they don’t. This dispute has taken a toll on my work my relationships my health and my happiness.
What is the point of having Strata Laws when the only way to enforce them is with the Tribunal. Please don’t even suggest going without a lawyer as you would be eaten alive. We lodged almost a year ago and it has dragged on and on. Going to the Tribunal without a lawyer is like having brain surgery without a Doctor.
If we break road rules we get pulled over by the police. If we break council rules the council inspector comes along and issues a warning. That can be followed through to a fine .
When someone in Strata community particularly the Committee breaks a law, they answer to no one, unless an owner takes them to the Tribunal. If you call Fair Trading their answer is go to the Tribunal. Where one member decides who is right or wrong. Fair trading can investigate Strata managers but have no power to investigate Committees … That is ridiculous and the experienced Committee members know it!
I have even written to the State member who has now been replaced and he sent me to guess where? Fair Trading who said go to the Tribunal.
So an individual owner is up against Committees who have sometimes been in office for scores of years. Who have each others backs or in this case have ‘something’ on each committee member so they toe the line. Who have proxy farmed the investors who don’t give a hoot, have access to all of the owners phone numbers, emails and addresses and use them to manipulate votes and also slander you while they are at it so even if you try to speak to owners they look at you as if you murdered a kitten. Who write ‘Empire Strikes Back’ minutes like: ‘We must defend the owners corporation against this individual owners application’ So not only do you have a major issue and conflict you also become alienated and isolated in your own home.
We had a general meeting to discuss and vote on the funds for the Tribunal and no owners showed up. When asked how could the owners have voted with a full understanding of the issues without hearing our side of it . I was told: The Committee had told them what was happening. Of course the committee are completely biased and also hiding what is really happening. No one wanted to go to an EGM and they feed on that as well.
Solution:
Wouldn’t it be easier if we could call a Fair Trading inspector, just like a Safe work inspector to come out to a building and investigate the dispute on site. Make a recommendation that goes to all of the owners. Give these inspectors the power to give fines or warnings. Settle it then and there. No lawyers. As an owner I feel totally unsupported by the system. If I lose at the tribunal I won’t even be able to sell, as all of the issues have been documented now and the issues run into hundreds of thousands of dollars. The Strata laws are pointless because they are not instantly and effectively enforced.
So frustrated, it shouldn’t be this hard. Rant over, Thanks for listening.
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Hi, thanks the conversation, and on our ‘homes, our lives’ I have a query please. If the Tribunal has re-opened a hearing date, and no notice appears on the notice board, is that a procedural thing? When I asked around, was told it only went to strata manager and isssue between them and the applicant. Yet all owners may be affected by the outcome. Any comments helpful, much appreciated.
At Griffith University Strata International Forums – 2007-2009 – NSW was said to have the best strata system/legislation in the WORLD!!
Western Australia was held to have the best Tribunal procedure… run strictly by a very competent South African manager…. parties to appear every two weeks until the matter resolved…Queensland had the best pre-contract disclosure to prospective purchasers…Victoria the worst strata law…NSW, however, has ALWAYS had diabolical problems with enforcement of its legislation… via the CTTT/NCAT, etc. – nepotism – amongst its staff/etc. and with the public, etc.The Forums also made it very clear that it was NOT necessary to have one single neurone for a person to become a committee member, not necessary to speak English, nor was it necessary to be in Australia…NO matter what the gurus do to the legislation, it has never been the real problem…. Enforcement always has… as with so many other courts/etc…Not to mention education of tribunal/court staff, etc. etc.The balance of power is in the wrong hands…. so little protection for strata owners…. PLUS… we have ALL lost so many of our consumer, police, human rights… because of this strata mechanism for bullying control/ignorance/fraud…Whoopi did well! We are up to $170K and no end in sight, about one owner!
What’s more, the owner imho is actually the victim in many ways. I feel like a traitor to the cause, but our committee and manager (one and the same in spirit) need to learn a lesson, and feel the wrath of the owners when we lose a lot of money.
Particularly because costs weren’t GM ratified – they don’t even know it’s going on.
It’ll be a very expensive told-you-so for me, and not one I will enjoy in the slightest.
Hi Whoopi, see my post in http://www.flatchat.com.au/forum/another-day-in-paradise/roundup-130k-legal-bill-for-a-lawless-committee/#p21041
Nobody is being told anything and costs are out of control. Just lots of character assassination of the owner who is defending themselves in the way anyone would – against broken strata laws, propaganda, secret agendas and all the stuff you and the other posters are talking about.
I am ashamed to be part of the OC that is letting this happen. $170k and growing, definitely not over yet.
My strata committee is forcing me to NCAT to resolve two issues that I have been asking them for three years to fix: an illegal height balustrade with a dangerous foothold and a dangerous, exceptionally old and noisy lift.
The balustrades on another level were replaced because they were considered dangerous due to rust and because they were not “modern enough”. I know that BCA laws are not retrospective but surely if the SC has known for 3 years ago my dangerous balustrade then they could be liable for any resulting injury.
Ditto the lift.
Re the balcony – On what basis is the OC taking you to NCAT about the balcony?
Safety is something that should be the highest priority in a strata scheme. Window safety is a big issue at the moment and this has been reflected in the new legislation. It is quite strange that balcony safety does not have the same priority. Both are equally as important in my view, particularly where children are involved.
Here are some things for to check: (1) Was your balcony compliant at the time that it was built, including the climbable features? NB: Amazingly, many balconies were not! (2) Does your balcony have structural issues e.g. rust? (3) Has the OC ever conducted a building report or WHS report where any defects were noted, and if so what has the OC done about it? (4) Do you have young children or grandchildren or visiting children who may be endangered by the non compliant balcony height, and climbable features, when they use the balcony?(5) Did you undertake a pre-purchase building inspection report and did it reveal any faults with the balcony, and if so did you notify the OC at the time? (6) What arguments did the upstairs owner use when they approached the OC to have their balcony replaced? NB: Perhaps you can replicate their arguments. (7) Do you or your family work from home? NB:Under the WHS Act, a person who has control of premises used by people as a place of work must ensure that the premises are safe and without risks to health.
You appear to have notified the OC about the problem 3 years ago. The OC have obviously decided to ignore you.
If there has not been an expert inspection and report undertaken on your balcony then I would recommend that you obtain one at your own expense as you will need to provide it when you defend yourself at NCAT.
Below is a link to a legal opinion (including some cases) that you might find helpful: https://www.lookupstrata.com.au/balustrades-regulations-strata-liability/
Many strata schemes use the Appearance of a Lot by-law (if they have one) as an argument to retain old balustrades and avoid the cost of replacing the old style balustrades with new, compliant, and modern balustrades.
In QLD there have been Tribunal decisions where the Appearance argument has been thwarted. The Tribunal’s argument has gone something like this …… if the OC wanted to have strict uniformity in the scheme then they have the option to introduce such a by-law. If your scheme has no ‘Uniformity’ by-law then there is no by-law that prohibits one Lot from appearing slightly different from another. Obviously another Lot in your building has a changed appearance of their balcony, therefore it would be inconsistent for the OC to use this tactic against you.
Lady Penelope – Ziggy may mean that he/she is being forced to go to NCAT to try and get a resolution to the issues raised, i.e. the OC is not taking Ziggy to NCAT, but rather Ziggy initiating proceedings there is the only avenue available.
@Penny Hill said:
The balance of power is in the wrong hands…. so little protection for strata owners…. PLUS… we have ALL lost so many of our consumer, police, human rights… because of this strata mechanism for bullying control/ignorance/fraud…It can appear that way when things get nasty.
Have you ever considered applying for the statutory appointment of a strata manager?
I ask because there is a notorious case in Sydney where one side of a dispute (the owners corp) won in an battle over a staircase built without permission while, at the same time, the losers in that case had a strata manager appointed because, they successfully argued, the other side was wasting money on legal battles over things like stair-cases (I kid you not!).
Now, NCAT cases do not create a precedent (thank goodness) but I think it would be worth your while applying for a statutory appointment on the grounds that:
a) The owners corp is pursuing legal action for malicious and personal reasons
b) The owners are not being properly informed of why they (and not you) are having to pay tends of thousands of dollars for issues that could and should have been resolved amicably long ago
c) The vendetta continues and more legal bill await because of the OC’s reluctance to accept a decision by a superior court.
d) the committee has shown a callous disregard for basic safety in the building while pursuing personal battles
Your argument would be, not that they shouldn’t appeal, but that an independent expert (a strata manager) should decide whether this is a valid approach.
Also, all owners need to know what their money is being spent on and why and you can show that the minutes of the committee have not properly reflected the actual events.
Talk to a reputable strata management firm about supporting your application (and I am very happy to recommend our sponsors Strata Choice for this) and they will tell you whether they think this is worth pursuing. It will cost you nothing and will resolve most of your problems – at least for the next couple of years.
In about six months your neighbours are going to be hit with a special levy to pay everyone’s legal bills. They will want to know why no one put a stop to this.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
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