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  • #9087

    Hi all

    I’ve been following this site for a while so many thanks for the tips and advice here.  I was hoping for some collective wisdom on the pros and cons of appointing a building manager in my strata complex (apologies if it has been addressed elsewhere on this site, but I haven’t been able to find a topic on it). 

    Background

    Our 3 year old strata complex of 40 apartments and 15 townhouses in northern Sydney is managed by a couple very hands on EC members supported by an offsite Strata Manager whose office is in the south of Sydney.  Ours is a generic scheme with no fancy facilities like a pool,  gym or bbq area, apart from 2 lifts in separate 4 storey buildings and some common equipment like communal hot water systems.

    Some of their tasks have included maintaining a website, updating the noticeboard notices (we have 4 separate blocks, 2 with lifts, so there are 3 noticeboards), checking for blown lights etc and liaising to have them replaced, liaising with the developer to follow up building defects, proactively managing our contractors and tradies to maintain/repair common property and monitoring by-law compliance (from abuse of car parking to residents who dump rubbish on common property).

    Problem

    Unfortunately, those EC members (who were able to do these tasks as they either worked from home or are retired) are now selling and the remaining members don’t have the capacity to continue these onsite tasks or aren’t interested.

    We are unlikely to be able to convince any other owners from joining the EC as at least half are investors, and of the remaining owners, many are not interested or have the attitude that “it’s the Strata Manager’s job” (but in actual fact, it’s a diligent EC member who attends to emergencies such as the hot water system failing at 10pm at night, or the garage door getting stuck).

    As one of the remaining EC members, I’m concerned about ensuring that we can continue to maintain common property and run our scheme well once these EC members are no longer with us.

    Potential solution

    In light of the inability of the remaining EC members to pick up the slack, one potential solution suggested by our strata manager, is to appoint a building manager.  He’s obtained a quote from a building management company to perform our cleaning/gardening as well as the tasks currently performed by EC members.

    The building manager would be based offsite and would rely on the cleaners/gardeners to proactively report issues and undertake the tasks currently performed by our few hard-working EC members.

    Has anyone here had experience engaging a building manager to help with the proactive onsite maintenance/repair of common property, as well as monitoring by-law compliance?

    My pipe dream, if possible, is for the building manager to work proactively with the strata manager to run and improve the complex.  EC members would still report issues where identified, but would not be burdened with having to run from their 8am-8pm day job to attend to strata issues at night like counting the number of blown light bulbs and telling the strata manager to send the electrician to replace them. 

    Instead, the EC would be akin to a company board directing at a high level, the strategic direction of the scheme in terms of maintenance/repair, as well as signing off/approving suggestions from the building manager and strata manager. 

    Am I being too idealistic here, or would a building manager solve our issues?  What should we practically be expecting them to do (I presume they would reduce the current strata manager’s workload and hence we should be able to negotiate a reduction in management fee), and are there any good building management companies out there? 

    Your collective wisdom would be greatly appreciated!

Viewing 12 replies - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)
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  • #19764
    Jimmy-T
    Keymaster

      The only area in which i think you are being idealistic is thinking you will get a reduction in fees from the strata manager.  Their attitude will be that they now have to deal with another professional instead of a couple of volunteers – that doesn’t represent a significant reduction in their duties.  If, however, the strata manager has been charging you for work done on a job-by-job basis, then you could save money buy having that covered by someone doing it on a retainer basis. 

      Why wouldn’t you get a strata manager to come round once a week and check the lights etc and have a mobile number that’s issued to committee members so they can contact them in an emergency.

      Those people who think it should be left to the strata manager need a crash course in what an SM actually does and how much they charge for performing tasks that are not part of their core responsibilities.

      If your committee is looking to continue the free ride provided by departing owners, they are going to be disappointed.  You are make some smart choices – just don’t make the  mistake of going for the cheapest option – it is rarely if ever the best choice.

      As far as good managers go, I can’t go past Eric Francis management, but i don’t know if they would take on this kind of job.  There are other good people out there but as a general rule I would avoid the big operators for small jobs.

      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
      #19769
      kiwipaul
      Flatchatter

        Your SM is just ripping you off by getting a property manager to do his job for him (he has been able to get away with it whilst your couple did his job for him) now he wants you to fork out for a building manager who will charge for his services and then employ someone to do the work (which strata will also pay for).

        Dump your current SM and get one who will do a combined service or keep him and look in your local paper for a handyman who will do some of these tasks at a fraction of the cost. You can vote to authorize him to spend up to $xxx (replace light bulbs) on minor repairs and anything beyond this needs EC or OC approval.

        The chances of the SM reducing his fees are miniscule IMHO.

         

        #19774
        Jimmy-T
        Keymaster

          @kiwipaul said:
          Your SM is just ripping you off by getting a property manager to do his job for him (he has been able to get away with it whilst your couple did his job for him) now he wants you to fork out for a building manager who will charge for his services and then employ someone to do the work (which strata will also pay for).

          I totally disagree.  The building manager has a specific role in his relationship with the Owners Corp and that should be defined in the Owners Corp’s contract with him or her.

          Most contracts do not run to basic maintenance and those that do will often charge extra for this.

          Maybe KP is talking about how it works in Queensland – that’s not always (by any means) how it works in NSW.

          The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
          #19775

          KP must be paying his strata manager a fortune if he expects him to be a building manager & handyman as well.

          A strata manage role is primarily administrative and financial. You should not expect them to regularly meet and instruct trades persons, carry out site inspections and minor maintenance. They should however know your building and visit every now and then.

          Jeff, you are indeed looking for a building manager. You should be able to find one who can offer 8 to 10 hours a week with flexibility in how and when they do these hours.

          Another valid suggestion is to employ a cleaner/caretaker who can liaise with tradesmen and identify issues (and preferably rectify minor issues themselves) whilst carrying out their regular cleaning duties.

          #19778
          kiwipaul
          Flatchatter

            @just get on with it said:
            KP must be paying his strata manager a fortune if he expects him to be a building manager & handyman as well.

            Neither the SM nor a BM will actually do the repairs they will charge for their time and then hire someone to actually carry out the repairs.

            Bear in mind our SM charges $200 / hour for extra services so you can expect to pay a BM 8 hours x $200  approx $1600 per week plus the cost of the tradesman to actually do the repair.

            Part of the SM job is to organise quotes for repairs when informed about them so if you have absoloutely no resident who is capable of phoneing the SM (or employed handyman) and telling them that a light bulb needs replaceing then yes you need a BM.

            #19781
            Kangaroo
            Flatchatter

              Most cleaners I’ve come across also offer to replace blown light bulbs, for a small additional fee plus cost of goods.

              They’re regularly at the premises, so no call-out charge.

              #19820

              Thanks all for the advice!  We’ve already asked our cleaner to see if they could take on an extra ‘building manager’ type role – unfortunately they don’t have the capacity.

              We received one quote from a small building management company – they have quoted to provide cleaning and gardening services too, I presume, to make it cost effective for them to take on this role.

              I’d be interested in finding out how many strata plans actually use building managers and their experience with using one? 

              Ours is a medium sized plan and only requires a building manager due to the lack of capacity of owners (including myself) to deal with issues onsite.  If I were retired or worked from home, it would be something I would pick up.

              #20865
              kkw

                Hi all

                This is a really interesting topic.  Our EC is also thinking about getting in an offsite building manager to assist with day-to-day maintenance and repair.

                However, we’ve come across a bit of a conundrum.  

                The building manager will have its own 3rd party contractors (and employees) that it uses in the course of performing its duties, and will issue work orders to those 3rd party contractors (with the approval of the EC / OC, of course).  

                However, the NSW strata legislation (section 29A Strata Schemes Management Act 1996 and regulation 13 Strata Schemes Management Regulation 2010) states that the “entering into contracts relating to the maintenance of common property or the provision of services to the common property” may not be delegated to or conferred on any other person unless the person is a member of the EC or a strata managing agent.  (For legal eagles, see below for the full extract of the legislation).

                Does this mean that a building manager isn’t supposed to be issuing work orders to contractors?

                Am I looking to deeply into this – e.g. has the EC/OC already entered into a contract relating to maintenance of common property by engaging the building manager, so there is no further “delegation” issue as the building manager is just fulfilling its own duties to the OC?  Is the fact that EC/OC approval is provided for a work order mean that there is in fact no “delegation” to the building manager?

                It would seem really strange if the building manager had to get the EC/OC or the strata manager to directly issue work orders to the building manager’s own contractors!  

                Grateful for any insight on this!!

                 

                ***********

                Strata Schemes Management Act 1996 (NSW)

                29A   Functions that may only be delegated to member of executive committee or strata managing agent

                (1)  The following functions of an owners corporation, executive committee, chairperson, secretary or treasurer may not be delegated to or conferred on any other person unless the person is a member of the executive committee or a strata managing agent:

                (a)  the preparation of estimates for the purposes of section 75,

                (b)  the levying of contributions,

                (c)  the receiving of, acknowledging of, banking of or accounting for money paid to the owners corporation,

                (d)  having custody of any money paid to the owners corporation or making payments from any such money,

                (e)  the taking out of insurance required or permitted by this Act,

                (f)  the conduct of meetings of the owners corporation and handling of correspondence,

                (g)  the maintenance of records required to be kept under this Act,

                (h)  such other functions as may be prescribed by the regulations.

                 

                Strata Schemes Management Regulation 2010

                13   Restriction on delegation of certain functions

                For the purposes of section 29A (1) (h) of the Act, the following functions are prescribed:

                (a)  arranging for inspections for the purposes of fire safety in accordance with section 65C of the Act,

                (b)  ensuring that the owners corporation complies with any relevant requirements under the Occupational Health and Safety Act 2000,

                (c)  entering into contracts relating to the maintenance of common property or the provision of services to the common property (other than contracts relating to a stratum parcel),

                (d)  arranging for inspections of records and other documents under section 108 of the Act,

                (e)  giving certificates under section 109 of the Act.

                 

                 

                #20866
                Jimmy-T
                Keymaster

                  @kkw said:
                  The building manager will have its own 3rd party contractors (and employees) that it uses in the course of performing its duties, and will issue work orders to those 3rd party contractors (with the approval of the EC / OC, of course).  

                  However, the NSW strata legislation (section 29A Strata Schemes Management Act 1996 and regulation 13 Strata Schemes Management Regulation 2010) states that the “entering into contracts relating to the maintenance of common property or the provision of services to the common property” may not be delegated to or conferred on any other person unless the person is a member of the EC or a strata managing agent.  (For legal eagles, see below for the full extract of the legislation).

                  Does this mean that a building manager isn’t supposed to be issuing work orders to contractors?

                  You have already described the circumstances under which this can work – the building manager arranges the work but the EC signs off on it before it is actioned.  This is not delegation of powers.  Delegation is when, for instance, an Owners Corporation asks its strata manager to take over the roles of secretary, chair and treasurer (usually because nobody else is able or willing to do so).

                  There’s a difference between delegation and permission.  For instance, you could give your strata manager delegated powers to approve work organised by the building manager.  But the building manager can’t go ahead and commission work – i.e. ask someone to do the work and pay them for it – without approval by the EC or strata manager.

                  The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                  #20868

                  That sounds really interesting – our EC is also looking at getting in a Building Manager.  So I gather that the Building Manager would have a work order system which would require the approval of the EC for each task.

                  This might seem like a silly question, but how does this practically work?  Would the EC have to hold a meeting every time a work order needs to be issued?  (In order to have proven that the EC has approved a work order).

                  I’d be very interested in understanding how this works practically on a day to day basis!

                  #20885
                  Whale
                  Flatchatter

                    Jeff.f – Our plan is entirely self-managed so I don’t have any experience in dealing with Building Managers’ activities, but I do know that there’s a great deal of liaison necessary between them and Strata Managers in order for the “system” to work. But didn’t Jimmy T address your question in his post #10 where he said that you could give your Strata Manager delegated powers to approve work proposed by the Building Manager?

                    If your Executive Committee wants to avoid too much day-to-day involvement but still wants some degree of control (I would), then it may consider Period Orders. That is, issued to the Building Manager and covering generic activities such as “cleaning”, “garden maintenance”, and “common lighting repairs” for a defined period of say 6 months to begin with, and with an upper-limiting fee based upon your Plan’s approved budgets for those items and the Building Manager’s anticipated fees (sub-contracted or otherwise).

                    The Strata Manager could be similarly instructed to approve all resultant invoices from the Building Manager during the currency of the Period Orders and within their terms; both scope and financial.

                    If everything works well, then the term of all or some of the Period Orders could be extended.

                     

                    #20895
                    tharra
                    Flatchatter

                      @jeff.f said:
                      This might seem like a silly question, but how does this practically work? 

                      What works for us is a monthly maintenance sub committee meeting which is attended by the BM & a few EC members. This committee goes through the work log & invoices for the month & progress of budgeted projects (e.g. replacing common area carpeting/new external paintworks). At the monthly ECM, the minutes of the maintenance committee are read through & discussed briefly & any invoices approved.

                      Our BM is on site & also attends EC meetings. Large budgeted maintenance projects are discussed at AGM/ECMs. We’re a large SP though.

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