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  • #7912
    confused
    Flatchatter

      Hello, I'm sure my strata company is on the money, but I just wanted to ask here to double check.

       

      When we first bought our unit, it had ceiling fans, but there were very old, ugly and too low. So we asked the electricians to take them down – they did. Now a few years on, we'd like to install some ceiling fans back in.

       

      However, I've just been told by Strata there is no by-law relating to ceiling fans and I need to organise one which will cost (he guessed) $2k, and could take 6months (as they're busy with AGMs). 

       

      This is where I get confused… the other units have ceiling fans (the original ones we had), and we want the fans put exactly where the old ones are (so can use the original holes, power, and plugs). 

       

      I conveyed all this, but they said the other owners have installed them at their own risk (but the fans are all so old, I think they were here from the start maybe?). 

       

      To make it more confusing, I'm also getting the ventilation fans in the laundry and bathroom replaced, but Strata said that's fine, and they doesn't need to know about it?

       

      Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

    Viewing 5 replies - 1 through 5 (of 5 total)
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    • #14745
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        There’s probably no by-law for ceiling fans because you don’t really need one. Sounds like your strata manager has swallowed the rule book. My advice: 1. buy fan, 2. install fan, 3. wait for sky to fall in. If sky (or ceiling) doesn’t fall in, who cares? If it does, you have to pay for fixing it.

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #14750
        Whale
        Flatchatter

          Hi Confused – we went through this at our Plan a couple of years ago, and as we're self-managed I (as Secretary) had to read and interpret the rule books that your Strata Manager swallowed!

          I concluded that as ceiling fans are fixed to Common Property (CP) in a manner such that the CP would be damaged if fans were removed (by accident or otherwise), and that the readily obtainable combination fan/light models are often installed by the Owners themselves using the existing light wiring, that the Owners Corporation (O/C) needed to know about such installations.

          The result was that our Executive Committee (and later the O/C) resolved that Owners must seek the written consent of the O/C prior to any installation, that the only conditions on the O/C's consent would be that all works must be undertaken by a Licensed Electrician, and that once installed, ceiling fans would be classified as “Lot Owners Fixtures” and be added to our Plan's Register of Common Property Changes.

          That classification meant that any damage to the CP or the ceiling fan that arose due to a “defined event” like the fan suddenly coming away from the ceiling (which actually occurred) is covered by the Plan's Building Insurance, and that in all other circumstances all repairs and maintenance to the fan and the involved CP is the responsibility of the present and subsequent Owner/s of the Lot.

          The process of arriving at this solution was time consuming given the conflicts in those rule books, and it could have been more restrictive / prescriptive, but I believe it's been proven simple and effective in its implementation since 2009 when the O/C rubber-stamped the procedure by way of Resolution at an AGM; no Special By-Laws necessary or required!!

          Alternatives could indeed be to go down the regulatory route preferred by your Strata Manager, or for the O/C to have no involvement at all and to then argue with a Lot Owner about who pays for what (including personal property / personal injury) if the sky does fall in; I guess that self-management enabled us to take the middle-ground. 

          #14762
          confused
          Flatchatter
          Chat-starter

            Thank you for the replies. Much appreciated.

             

            I guess my main worry is, if something DOES go wrong, such as causing a fire, or ripping down half the ceiling. Strata will take me town and they'd enjoy every second.

             

            I've already paid for most of the by-law in this place (halogen lights, sky light, ducted air con) – even though it all existed when I moved in, and also existed in other units – just because I was the one changing things around, I had to pay for the lot.

             

            I guess if I'm not willing to pay (or wait) for another by-law, or take the risk without it – no fans for me.

             

            Just annoys me as I pass other units and see them with their cool fans… lucky Summer hasn't really hit yet.

             

            One last question. If someones (original) fan does fall out of the ceiling and causes damage. They'd be paying for it as there is no by-law?

             

            Also, how does installing a ventilation fan for the bathroom differ from the ceiling fan? Even though there is no by-law for either?

             

            Cheers.

            #14763
            Jimmy-T
            Keymaster

              I really think you have been badly advised on this (in the past, not on this forum).

              Your building has clearly been run on the basis of a nod and wink and now they are exploiting your sense of right and wrong to bring their by-laws up to date.  All the law requires you to do is to give the EC 14 days notice that you plan to change something in your lot.  This is not requesting permission – it is telling them what you plan to do.

              In the absence of specific by-laws relating to ceilings etc, that's all you need.

              Your concerns for what happens if everything goes pear-shaped should be covered by getting a reputable installer to do the work and provide a warranty for it.

              The difference between extractor fans and your ceiling fans is that the extractor fans should be repaired or replaced at their (the OCs) cost as they are clearly installed as part of common property.

              As for the other unofficially installed fans in other units, if they were there when the current owners of the lot bought them, then they will have effectively become common property even though there was no by-law allowing their installation. So those owners wouldn't have to pay if the fell out of the ceiling (although the original owners – if they still own the units –  would).

              In other words, if you hadn't removed your fan, it would be common property. 

              This is one of these situations where I would be tempted to just go ahead and cover my backside by using competent installers (which is all a by-law could compel you to do anyway).  A by-law isn't going to protect you if common property gets damaged – it protects the OC against shoddy work now and in the future.

              There is a clear inequity in them forcing you to carry the burden of updating their by-laws.  It's time to put a stop to it.  Send them a letter telling them that you plan to install a fan and that you accept responsibility for any damage it causes to common property.  If they want a by-law, they can formulate it and pay for it.

              The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
              #14791
              confused
              Flatchatter
              Chat-starter

                Thank you for your post. I like the attitude. They've stopped replying to my emails now, so might send them one last one with some points from your post.

                 

                Thank you.

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