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25/03/2018 at 5:12 pm #11651
My Body Corp Committee in Qld. has a service agreement with a offsite property management company. The Committee Chair has informally agreed to modify the agreement in practice by doing half the stuff herself. The management co is still getting paid the full fee but consequently doing less than half the work they are hired to do. When you think about it, isn’t that essentially embezzlement in a round about way? And, is that approach even legal?
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25/03/2018 at 5:40 pm #29418
There are many reasons committee officers choose to do the work of external managers themselves. Often it’s a case of wanting to make a contribution or be hands-on, other times it’s about control.
If I were the professional manager I would be asking if my people were being given the opportunity to do the work, if they had failed to fulfil the terms of the contract and what would happen if the chair sold up or just couldn’t do it any more.
If I were on the committee, I’d be glad of the flexibility in this arrangement, knowing that ther was a fall-back when the voluntary work ended and a benchmark for what was expected of the managers in the future.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
26/03/2018 at 10:58 am #29419Jimmy, I agree with your comments, but wonder on the legality of agreeing to do something, and then not doing it (just don’t or asked/negotiated thereafter not to) for the money originally agreed to do it. You’d think it reasonable that if you cut somethings you originally agreed and costed, you’d consequently also cut the pay you take for that, which is not happening here. It just seems wrong and I couldn’t imagine the reverse happening. I’m aware change to contractor’s agreements is generally not possible within the time of that agreement when the Owner’s voted for the contract at a AGM. So how is this any different I wonder?
26/03/2018 at 11:13 am #29420If this happened in my strata I would have major concerns in terms of transparency.
The OC has a right to know the exact details of each and every deal and cash flow from its funds. Have these been laid out?.
I have no problem with members/owners doing work and being fairly remunerated. In many instances owners/members do unpaid/voluntary work for strata but this still needs to be transparent.
Does the Committee chair have any relationship with the management company, does the chair receive any benefits that are not disclosed? Why do they ‘informally’ agree surely the OC have a right and obligation to know (and approve) the details of this informal agreement.
Your strata may be getting a great deal and everything is honest and fairly worked out. On the other hand there maybe all sorts of underhanded deals and kickbacks going on.
If the OC makes enquiries it needs to be careful to put anyone offside or accuse them. Indeed once the details are know the chair may be shown to be a great chair working diligently and saving the OC money.
26/03/2018 at 11:36 am #29421Thanks Cosmo. I can see the Chairperson here being played. I’ve called the Maintenance company out previously, tradies don’t like dealing with them and pointing this out makes me look the never-satisfied whinger, and still after which the Committee re-engaged them for another term, but the above has since now happened hence my seeking advice here.
On a side issue, having folks do your own stuff especially when paid is less that ideal should they do a dodgy job, or worse, get injured without insurance and sue you.
26/03/2018 at 11:57 am #29422This issue depends on how much of the original contracted duties of the Body Corporate Manager (BCM) the particular Committee member has taken over, what they have decided to take over, and why they have decided to take over.
Even though a BCM has a contract with the body corp to undertake certain duties this does not mean that the Committee are not permitted to assume their legislated roles ever again during the life of the BCM contract. The legislation permits the Committee to retain their roles should they feel the need to do so e.g. a Secretary may still call a meeting.
What I would be watchful of is the Committee chairperson taking on roles and functions that belong to other Committee members, such as the specific roles of the Secretary and/or the Treasurer. These roles are outside of the authority of the Chairperson. This, to me, would present more of a problem.
Something that is not often understood by some Chairpersons is that although the title of ‘Chairperson’ sounds important the Chairperson himself/herself has a very a limited role in the Committee e.g. limited to Chairing the meetings. Both the Secretary and the Treasurer arguable having a far more significant and impactful role in calling meetings and in undertaking other administrative tasks.
The chairperson does not have more authority than anyone else on the committee.
Transparency is the key issue. Are the records being kept in a satisfactory manner now that the Chairperson has ‘taken over’?
I have personally experienced situations where a dominant Chairperson tried to take over the roles of every other Executive Committee member, and the BCM. It was a not a pleasant couple of years!
26/03/2018 at 12:13 pm #29423Hi Penelope, thank you. My issue here is regarding our contracted Building Maintainence Manager (Not the secretarial based Body Corp Manager) appointed to keep the place in good nick as it was considered too laborious for a volunteer to do it. Why bark if you’ve got a dog sorta thing. Seems the Chair prefers to pay the dog with our money, and still wants to bark. But she’s not the dog, and I can spot the imitator despite the best efforts!
26/03/2018 at 12:45 pm #29425As mentioned above the Chairperson does not have any more authority than any other committee member in any decision making, including a decision to take on maintenance roles.
There are lots of questions …….. Is the maintenance contract at your BC something that is agreed to each financial year at the AGM? If so then you can propose a Motion at the AGM that the remuneration of the maintenance contract be reduced to reflect the fact that some of the jobs are now not required.
What maintenance jobs is the Chairperson undertaking that were previously covered by the maintenance contract – gardening? sweeping? putting out the bins? Who is doing these jobs when (and if) the Chairperson becomes ill or is on holiday?
Is it on the record that the Committee has approved the Chairperson taking on some of the maintenance? Is the Chairperson being paid to undertake this work? What are the insurance implication? Is there a conflict of interest?
26/03/2018 at 1:00 pm #29426Agree, yes our AGM is upcoming so was going to Motion for a review of cost/benefit for all contractors. But with all the other things I feel needing redress unsure how to go about it without overwhelming folk or looking bad myself. Thinking I’ll shoot Motions for a few things I just can’t stand and seek to address the others that may just first require reasonable if robust negotiation. Certainly a learning experience but the pain of not acting is now more than the pain of acting to get things addressed. Of course failed to pass Motions also then would become problematic if they are genuine in nature. Hmm.
26/03/2018 at 1:07 pm #29427Try to get yourself elected to the Committee. If you are passionate about making your scheme a better place to live in then being on the Committee is the best place for you to be.
Also, if you don’t like the maintenance company that you are currently with then you are within your rights, as a Lot owner, to search for other companies and propose them as another alternative.This would need to happen via a Motion for the AGM.
26/03/2018 at 1:41 pm #29428Oh dear, these’s next to no chance I’d rejoin the committee with the same folks still on board. Let’s just call it a character building exercise shall we! And I think I’m actually more value not being on it thus I can focus on what I see from afar that the active committee members can’t. Communicating that is proving to be the fun bit.
26/03/2018 at 3:06 pm #29431@Flame Tree said:
Thinking I’ll shoot Motions for a few things I just can’t stand and seek to address the others that may just first require reasonable if robust negotiation.I tried that tactic a couple of years ago in my building and ended up just annoying people who wanted a quick meeting (as they all do).
The dictatorship in charge now uses that whenever they can to portray me as a trouble-maker rather than a problem solver.
My message – choose your battles carefully and don’t try to fight a war on too many fronts at the same time.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
26/03/2018 at 4:42 pm #29438@Flame Tree said:
Agree, yes our AGM is upcoming so was going to Motion for a review of cost/benefit for all contractors. But with all the other things I feel needing redress unsure how to go about it without overwhelming folk or looking bad myself. Thinking I’ll shoot Motions for a few things I just can’t stand and seek to address the others that may just first require reasonable if robust negotiation. Certainly a learning experience but the pain of not acting is now more than the pain of acting to get things addressed. Of course failed to pass Motions also then would become problematic if they are genuine in nature. Hmm.I think waiting till the AGM will bring about the sort of things mentioned by Jimmy. You need to find a few like minded owners before the AGM. Talk to them about the concerns you have. Listen to their ideas you might be surprised.
26/03/2018 at 5:34 pm #29443Yes, the agm motion submission close off date is end of this week.
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