Flat Chat Strata Forum Common Property Current Page

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  • #11415
    taps
    Flatchatter

      Firstly our property is NSW – built in 1971.

      On of our townhouse owners has an issue with stairs in their back courtyard. 

      these stairs lead from the back door onto a patio with a roof and down to the courtyard (back courtyard).  these stairs were built at the same time as the building however, they are pulling away from the building and so is the patio.  there is a gap between the wall and the edge of the stairs of about 1.5 inches.  These stairs go to the ground level of their courtyard and only service their property.  (there is also access to under their townhouse from this courtyard), other townhouses also have these stairs and no-one else has had an issue. this owner is complaining that these stairs are common property and it’s the footings that are faulty.  

      the courtyards are within the lot there is courtyard in the front as well with steps but he has upgraded these and he knows these are owner responsibility.  

      our strata manager has written to him explaining that as these stairs are within his lot they are his responsibility to maintain and repair.  however he now wants a committee meeting to well, i don’t really know what – other than ask the committee to ok the works to fix his stairs.  

      i have also researched the Strata rules and they say any pergola, planter box, clothes line, stairs etc are the responsibility of the lot owner to repair

      any help would be appreciated.

      thankyou

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    • #28474
      Sir Humphrey
      Strataguru

        I am not in NSW so don’t take my advice as gospel about what is and is not common property. That said, on the face of it, you have done your own research and also have the professional advice of your strata manager and both say ‘This is the unit owner’s problem to fix.’ Since the managing agent has given that written advice to the owner, it would be sufficient for the committee to record in its minutes that a question about responsibility for maintenance of the stairs was raised by the owner of lot X and the strata manager has written to the owner and advised that they are the owner’s responsibility. You could append a copy of the letter to the minutes. You could also have a committee member speak personally to the owner to ensure they understand and have received the SM’s letter.

        I don’t see why you would feel you should advise the committee to fix the stairs. When people are persistent and bully they often get their way but you should also think of the other owners. Why should you be the agent of the bully in getting the meek to pay for something that is not their responsibility? Far better that you help them stand up to the bully. Often people like this are accustomed to pushing and pushing and then getting their way. Often they also back off surprisingly quickly despite all their chest-beating when they meet someone prepared to stand up for proper principles. 

        #28501
        taps
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          Thank you Sir Humphrey, for your reply, much appreciated – just in past few days the committee members have received more email(s) from this owner saying the below:-

          “I can’t understand how the back steps are considered to be part of the courtyard when they originally formed part of the main building in the original building design. Without the steps the building would have been considered unfinished and quite clearly the original workmanship was substandard with insufficient footings. the steps were obviously not constructed correctly when the building was first built and i believe should not be the responsibility of the owner in this instance”

          “I still cannot quite understand how the rear steps can be considered separate to the building because as per my previous comments, if the steps were not part of the original building then the property would have been considered incomplete.

          I appreciate that the properties were constructed several years ago but the defect is the result of shoddy workmanship when first constructed and were this known at the time, would have been rejected.”

          Seven other townhouses have these stairs in back courtyards at varying amount of steps & none have this issue.  We are thinking he believes, this is a boundary wall and yes its an outside wall of the t’house on the strata plan it shows no stairs at the back. (albeit the architects drawings do)  i can see this heading to a legal opinion as these emails from the owner are now five, in a very short period of time.  will ask the Strata Manager (again) to send the relevant Strata Act to this owner.  short of asking this owner to visualise that the back courtyard is another ‘room’ and everything in it is owner responsibility.  

          #28508
          kaindub
          Flatchatter

            70s buildings in NSW pose some problem in determining what is common property and what is owners, especially at the edges of the lot.

            The old way of defining strata in NSW had a thick line around the verandas ans stairs and a dotted line for the wall dividing the verandah/ stairs and the internal living areas. 

            That is probably where the SM bases his ruling on.

            But the lot owners owns only what is between the thick lines and between the floor and the ceiling.

            The courtyard is usually lot owners property maybe 0.5 m below ground level and 2.4 m above ground. Check the strata plan.

            On that basis that the thick line is around the stairs, I believe the stairs are common property as they would not form part of the courtyard area.

            Why is strata never simple

            Robert

            #28548
            taps
            Flatchatter
            Chat-starter

              Hi,

              thank you for your help – much appreciated.  it’s gone quiet for this last week, so maybe the owner has done some investigations of his own.  

              there is no thick line on the Strata Plans for these back stairs they don’t show at all.  we believe he will get legal advice and not take what the EC & Strata manager are saying.  

              will keep you posted if necessary.

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