Flat Chat Strata Forum Common Property Current Page

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #7469

    We recently had out air conditioner damaged by a gardener employed by the strata committee (of which I'm a member). The A/C unit sits on common property and there are no bi-laws, etc that I can find where responisibilty of the upkeep of such things is stipulated.

    With regards to paying for the repair, who is responsible? My thoughts are that the gardeners are responsible, but that it's the Strata's responsibility, as the employers of the gardeners, to chase them up. If the Strata is unwilling or unable to chase them up then it should come out of the building insurance.

    Our strata manager has told me that this is not correct, and that I need to chase up the gardeners directly for reimbursement.

    Who's right in this situation?

     

    Thanks,

    The Dawdells

Viewing 13 replies - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • Author
    Replies
  • #13067
    Jimmy-T
    Keymaster

      I'm with you on this.  The gardener was acting on behalf of the Owners Corp so they should pay and it should come out of their insurance.  Seems pretty clear cut to me.

      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
      #13068

      That's great to hear – now I just need to convince him of that 🙂

      #13071
      Billen Ben
      Flatchatter

        Absolutely!
        The EC or agent should quickly pursue the gardener to claim on his insurance as the gardener should have insurance to cover the damage BUT if things get bogged down and you need to use the air con then press the OC to fix the problem via their insurance or funds as they have the, immediate, s62 duty regardless of who did the damage.

        The following is from Clover Moores' 2009 Strata discussion paper.
        The full paper can be found HERE

        Issue 4.3 Damage to Common Property
        Owners Corporations pay for damage to common property, regardless who caused it.

        If the OC need to fix the problem via their own insurance or funds then it does not dissolve the gardener of responsibility for his damage; it just mean you get a more immediate repair while the gardener fights what should be a losing battle.

        If your agent is suggesting you (personally) chase the gardener for reimbursement, are they suggesting you get it fixed, using your personal (not OC) funds, and then have the gardener reimburse you?

        You should look into getting a new agent if that is the case. They should know it is not for the owner to chase up this type of matter.

        If the gardener will not take immediate action (make a claim on his policy) then claim on the OCs policy and let the OCs insurer chase the gardener.

        This matter presents as one that deals with damage to common property and it is an administration matter i.e. agent or EC. Have a quick look at the agency agreement and see if insurance claims is a part of the delegation of duties to the agent and make a claim on the OCs policy if the gardener wont play nice.Smile

        #13072

        Ok, here's the response from our strata manager…any thoughts?:

        I understand your concerns however there is no obligation on the owners corporation to repair or replace items that are damaged as a result of a contractor regardless of who engaged them.  There is no negligence or liability on the part of the strata plan.

         

        A similar scenario could be if a contractor engaged to undertake work at the building accidently hit one of the owners vehicles, there is no liability on the owners corporation or the owner who engaged them.

        #13074
        Jimmy-T
        Keymaster

          I’m going to leave this to any lawyers who might be reading this but I do note that in the section of the Strata Act regarding the OC’s right to enter a lot in an emergency, they are responsible for any damage caused by their contractors in effecting emergency repairs.

          I think your strata manager is offering you an opinion backed up by … what? Does anyone have a definitive answer?

          The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
          #13075
          Billen Ben
          Flatchatter

            The Dawdells said:

            Ok, here's the response from our strata manager…any thoughts?:

            I understand your concerns however there is no obligation on the owners corporation to repair or replace items that are damaged as a result of a contractor regardless of who engaged them.  There is no negligence or liability on the part of the strata plan.

             

            A similar scenario could be if a contractor engaged to undertake work at the building accidently hit one of the owners vehicles, there is no liability on the owners corporation or the owner who engaged them.

            If a mowing contractor rolls up to a house and puts a small rock through a door during the course of his work he claims on his insurance and fixes things up. If he will not come to the party the owner can claim on their insurance and often the owners insurer will pursue the contractors insurer or the contractor. Why is this so different .. i don't think it is.

            I am sitting here laughing out loud at what the agent has written. I am not a lawyer. I do self management services which help OCs get rid of hopeless managers and allow the owners to do many of the things they pay agents too much for. I am not anti-agent but too many agents are getting too much out of OCs for doing simple tasks. The owners just need a little knowledge and some first time guidance to do it themselves.

            The OC has a duty to maintain and repair regardless of who cause the damage; have your agent read s62 and see what poor excuse is offered for still not fixing the matter.

            Seriously … look for a new agent.

            I will watch this topic with interest for a legal opinion. For me the only question is whose policy should be making the claim, the gardener or OC.
            At present i feel the gardener should have insurance and should be claiming to fix the damage.

            #13080
            Whale
            Flatchatter

              Sorry all, but as a non-lawyer and mere Secretary of a self-managed Plan I have a different perspective on this.

              It seems to me that this is a great example of an instance where a Proprietor (either past or current) has, by the installation of an air-conditioner without the prior consent of the Owners Corporation (O/C), effectively added to the Common Property.

              As there is reportedly no Special By-Law covering the works either specifically or generically, the damaged air-conditioner forms part of the Common Property, and responsibility for its “maintenance and repair” falls upon the O/C under S62 of the SCMA.

              “The Dawdells” shouldn't be dealing with the O/C's Contractor, but should rather be insisting that the O/C either follows-up with their Contractor with regard to the repairs being made under a Claim on that Contractor's Liability Insurance, or if delays persist, by insisting that the O/C itself commissions the repairs and at its discretion seeks a reimbursement from that Contractor.

              #13086

              Thanks for your feedback everyone. We’ve had the air con fixed now, and I’ve forwarded the invoice onto the strata manager. In the interest of completeness, here’s the email I included with it:

              Hi ,

              I don’t understand your reticence in chasing up this matter as it seems to me that doing this would fall within your duties as strata manager.

              The issue here is not so much one of liability or negligence, but of the existing relationship between the strata plan and the gardeners. You, as the strata manager, organised them to come on the property and you should also be responsible to chase up any associated problems, whether they be how they perform their duties or any other issues, such as this, that may arise.

              With regards to the payment of any associated costs, I would assume that they should be covered by the gardeners or their insurance once this damage has been broached with them. In the meantime, it would seem that the burden of the cost should fall on the strata. As you pointed out, there has not been a decision made on the responsibility of owner property on common property. As I understand it, until a by-law is passed, any such equipment, including all air-con units, external vents, etc are the responsibility of the strata.

              I have attached a copy of the invoice totalling $197.07, which I would like you to forward on to the gardeners. Please note that in the Report section , it specifies that the problem originated from damaged (cut) thermistors, and that the damage coincided with the gardeners’ visit last week.

              #13087
              Jimmy-T
              Keymaster

                Best of luck with that. I think rather than asking them to forward it to the gardeners, I'd have been just asking them to pay it.  If they want to take it out of their insurance or pursue the gardeners, that's their business and not your problem.

                The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                #13088

                And the reply…

                This matter is far from my role as a strata manager.  As the air conditioner is the lot owners property, it should not involve the strata manager or any other member of the owners corporation.  In addition according to the limited minutes that we have the air conditioner has not been approved so is currently an illegal attachment.

                While I have not said that we would not take this up with the gardener it is not our responsibility to peruse recovery of a lot owners expense.  Now that we have a copy of the invoice I contacted who advised that it is very difficult for you them to cut the grass around this equipment due to height of the grass given that is maintained very infrequently and is not prepared to accept liability for the repairs.

                As indicated before this is not the strata’s responsibility to reimburse you for the costs.  If you would like it to be considered at the next general meeting I will put the invoice aside for the next meeting.

                #13093
                Jimmy-T
                Keymaster

                  If you look at Whale's response, above, you'll see that the SM is labouring under a common misapprehension.  Because the Air-Con was installed by a previous owner without permission doesn't mean that you have to apply to have it  on common property – it means that it must now be considered common property and it's up to the OC to maintain it (regardless of who damaged it).  The OC at the time it was installed had the opportunity to formalise the arrangement or have it removed.  That they didn't do so isn't your fault and they have inherited the issue from the previous OCs.

                  The other misconception troubling your SM is that the OC doesn't have responsibilty for the actions of their contractors.  Why then would they have OH&S insurance, for instance?

                  All that said, you are now facing a $70 charge if you want to take this to Fair Trading for mediation (an obligatory first step towards a claim at the CTTT.  And you might have a smartypants in your EC say, well, if this is common property, let's remove it.

                  Frankly, I'd be using this as a opportunity to formalise the air-con issue. They can pay the repair bill and for a special resolution by-law to be drawn up whereby you agree to take over the maintenance of the air-con unit  in the future. But even if you were responsible for the unit now, they would still be liable for the repairs.

                  My suggestion – see if you can arrange a free mediation with someone from the Institute of Strata Titles Management who is more across the strata legislation than your guy is.  I don't even know if ISTM do mediations but they should.  

                  The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                  #13096

                  Just wondering if Whale or anyone else knows where I can find documents to back this up:

                  It seems to me that this is a great example of an instance where a Proprietor (either past or current) has, by the installation of an air-conditioner without the prior consent of the Owners Corporation (O/C), effectively added to the Common Property.

                  #13097
                  Jimmy-T
                  Keymaster

                    While you're waiting for a definitive legal ruling, have a look HERE.

                    The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                  Viewing 13 replies - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
                  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

                  Flat Chat Strata Forum Common Property Current Page