Flat Chat Strata Forum Common Property Current Page

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  • #7416
    Hasbean
    Flatchatter

      My unit was flooded because the water supply to the unit above leaked. The water supply is common property. Strata's insurance paid for the damage to the fixtures, mainly the wooden floor I had put in 18 months ago. Strata covered their excess on that, so I was not out of pocket.

      Unfortunately, the carpets in the bedrooms had to be replace due to the water damage and, not being a fixture, were not covered by Strata's insurance. My insurance company paid for that but I had to pay an excess of $500.

      I have requested the Strata Manager to contact the committee and see if they will refund my excess.

      She says they will not.

      The damage was due to no fault of my own, I am out of pocket for lost wages due to having to meet assessors and workmen on site, I have had to spend a lot of energy trying to get everything settled and now I have to pay $500 on top of all that.

      Is it normal for STrata to refuse to cover an excess in this situation?

    Viewing 9 replies - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)
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    • #12894

      Hi Hasbean

      The water pipe will be common property so long as it is not for the exclusive use of one lot. I assume it is common property otherwise the owners corporation’s insurance would not have paid you.

      The fact that the carpet:

      – in your bedrooms was not covered by the OC’s insurance; and

      – was covered by your insurance,

      does not exonerate the OC’s liability to compensate you for all damage to lot property caused by defective common property.

      The OC is liable to you for your losses and you are entitled to recover such losses from the OC (including the excess). Whether or not the conduct of the OC is normal is not relevant.

      Indeed, I would expect your insurer to consider recovering monies paid to you from the OC.

      Regards

       

      Chris Kerin

      Senior Lawyer
      ———————————-
      TEYS Lawyers
      The Strata Law Experts
      02 9562 6500
      1300 TEYSLAWYERS
      Suite 73, Lower Deck
      Jones Bay Wharf
      26-32 Pirrama Rd
      Pyrmont NSW 2009
       

      #12906
      easty
      Flatchatter

        Chris

         

        What would the situation be if Hasbean was not insured?  Would the OC have been liable to pay for his carpet?  Or for that matter anything at all damaged due to the leak?

        #12895
        Jimmy-T
        Keymaster

          To answer Hasbean's last question, it's “normal” for ECs to refuse to pay for CP-caused damage, but it's neither right nor legal.

          And to jump in and answer for Chris, the OC would have been liable for any damage cause by a fault in Common Property like a leak of pipes inside a wall.

          The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
          #12918
          easty
          Flatchatter

            I have no problems with an OC being responsible for damage to Lot Owner’s property when that damage (or loss) is caused by a failure to maintain the common property.  Siewa v SP35042 clearly established an OC has a legal and absolute responsibility to maintain the CP and failure to do so can result in severe financial penalties and in Seiwa’s case $400,000 was awarded against the OC.  And that is as it should be – every member of an EC, if they know nothing else, should understand 100% the responsibilities imposed on an OC through Section 62 of the SSMA.  Section 62 states clearly that an OC must maintain and repair the CP and in my opinion this is its principal responsibility.

             

            However I would argue that a burst internal pipe in a common property wall would not normally constitute a “failure to maintain the common property”.  Burst pipes can result from many other things other than a “failure to maintain”.  For example a sudden external increase in water pressure, building movement, freezing of water, stress fractures etc. most being events which cannot be foreseen even by the most fastidious and conscientious OC.  A burst water pipe is an accident or a “defined event” as insurers like to say. And as such it is insurable. 

             

            In Hasabean’s situation if we are saying damage caused any fault in the CP (such as a burst water pipe) legally should be paid for by the OC then this exposes every CP to an uninsurable risk because no entity (or individual for that matter) can insure against the  loss or damage to another entity’s or individual’s property.

             

            Hasabean, for example could have had a $100,000 sound system or a Brett Whitely hanging on his wall, loss of or damage to which could not be covered under any insurance policy taken out by the OC.  So even though the burst pipe was not caused by a failure to maintain the argument is that OC would still be legally liable to Hasabean’s loss.  I think that is very onerous and could potentially bankrupt an OC even if it were committed to Section 62. 

             

            I would agree however if the leak from the CP pipe was due to the faulty pipe about which the OC was aware and did nothing to address – then Siewa comes into play.   

             

            One last thought.  Does the reverse apply to Lot Owners regarding faulty property – for example if Hasabean’s pipes underneath his kitchen sink burst (and burst kitchen and dishwasher pipes is a common event) while he was at work and thousands of litres of water flooded and damaged the CP and lot owner’s property below I think he would be pretty miffed if the OC and lot owner came knocking on his door seeking restitution.

             

            The lesson here is that everyone (including OC’s) should insure their own property and take out the excess with which they are prepared to pay in the case of an event.   And of course OC’s must have as their number one priority repair and maintenance of the CP.

            #12919
            Jimmy-T
            Keymaster

              Easty

              As you'll see from today's column in the Herald, the fact that the OC aren't aware or even couldn't possibly be aware of a problem is no defence against a claim that they are liable for common property and any damage cause by its failure. It seems to be an absolute responsiblity without limit.  Is it uninsurable?  Probably not – just bloody expensive.  And I agree it shouldn't be like this – but it is.

              The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
              #12921
              struggler
              Flatchatter

                We had a unit that had an overflowing drain in their bathroom, causing water to flow out into a bedroom.  The cause was hair blocking the drain.

                Our Strata manager said that the EC should have gone around to every unit and checked that the drains in bathrooms/showers were not blocked with hair!  So it was the OC responsibility!

                As I have mentioned in a previous post, it is this (as well as other examples) that forced the EC to have a by law written that internal plumbing was the responsibilty of owners and that plumbing in common areas was the responsibility of OC.

                Then reading this post regarding burst pipes in common walls!  How would anyone know?  The more I read, the more I want to get out of strata.  Can I afford it – no.  Can I afford not to – no.  Not unless we find a better way for strata living.

                #12928
                easty
                Flatchatter

                  Struggler

                   

                  Please do not despair – strata living works and can be a panacea for those who can't or won't look after a freestanding house.  It is also a boon for the older generation and those just starting out on the life’s great journey of property ownership.

                   

                  In my view the problems with strata living does not lie in the Strata Schemes Management Act, although there is always room for improvement,  but rather, as I think our moderator once put succinctly “That many who live in Strata pretend they don't”.

                   

                  Much of this has to do with the concept of common property – for example if you greeted a new owner to a strata plan, they being all excited about their new purchase, and said “I am so and so from the Executive Committee and welcome to our plan.  Now here is your unit; please note that you own nothing in this unit except the internal walls, fixtures and by the way the paint on the ceiling and external walls.  That’s it everything else belongs to us, the Owners’ Corporation – the doors, external walls, floors, windows, doors etc etc. so don’t touch any of this unless we give you permission”.

                   

                  I reckon most new owners would say, he must be kidding  – I just paid a bomb for this joint and I have big plans to make some improvements.  And that is when the trouble starts.

                   

                  Common property is a concept and for many lot owners a concept they can’t or won’t accept or simply just don’t understand because it is so at odds with previous house ownership or living experiences where they just did whatever they wanted whenever they wanted. It is also true many Executive Committee’s fail to understand the concept of common property and so begins the constant battle, arguments, litigation, fights etc. about who is responsible for what.

                   

                  However at its most simplistic the principal should work well in a well-managed strata.  The fact is that this concept of common property frees owners from the responsibility of having to look after probably 75% of their lot and done competently should ensure a safe, secure and sound building.

                   

                  But that is an ideal world I know – here for example are some of the more innocuous work that lot owners undertake because they can’t come to terms with the idea that most of their lot belongs to someone else and  anyway it is only minor work:

                   

                  1. Install air conditioning units on their balconies; drill into the water proof membrane to secure the compressor and years later after the water has caused damage to the structure turn to the OC to repair.
                  2. Drill window frames and external doors to install locks – thereby compromising the manufacturer’s waterproofing design of the window and or door;
                  3. Change locks on doors and create a non-compliant fire door
                  4. Install security screens on external doors which don’t comply with fire requirement and are intrinsically unsafe as they don’t provide ready egress in case of emergency.
                  5. Install film on external windows which if not done correctly can degrade and or cause windows to crack.
                  6. Throw down a few tiles in their dining room without any consideration for their neighbours below – out of sight out of mind.
                  7. Install aerials and dishes on roofs resulting in leaks.
                  8. Generally drill into CP walls causing all sorts of problems.
                  9. I’ll put a Spa on my balcony – what a great idea.

                  10. Install “over the top” balcony gardens and when watered annoy neighbours downstairs

                   

                  The list can be as long as lot owner’s imagination.  And some just don’t stop there of course.  They add rooms; take over CP anything they can get away with.

                   

                  The truth is that many owners want to claim ownership of CP when they want to change it (like the examples above) and are just as quick to disown CP when something goes wrong and they want it fixed.

                   

                  It falls to the Executive Committee to monitor the situation and they have to be firm but also understanding.  By this I mean they should have in place processes and by-laws that support lot owners improving their lots but within strict guidelines that don’t compromise safety and building standards and ensure ongoing maintenance of improvements lies with the lot owner and the not the OC.

                   

                  And one of the best ways to stop lot owners fiddling around with the common property is to tell them that when they go to sell the strata inspector will often pose the question “Are there any unauthorised alterations or additions to the common property attached to the lot my client is thinking of buying”.  That an affirmative answer will put your sale in jeopardy should have them very concerned.

                   

                  And I know you say that you can’t know what changes lot owners make to CP but I think you would be surprised – people talk and an EC with its ear to the ground will usually find out what owners have done.  And of course the occasional inspection helps.

                   

                  The other control the OC has is that soon as it becomes aware a change has been made to the CP without approval it can order the improvement to be removed and the CP made good.  And this can apply to a person to whom the offending lot owner sells.

                   

                  So don’t despair – the good thing is that with forums such as this and bodies like the Owners Corporation Network and the information available on the internet generally things should improve.  Strata living is here to stay and will get bigger and hopefully better.

                  #12948
                  Hasbean
                  Flatchatter
                  Chat-starter

                    Thank you to those who have responded.

                     

                    On the one hand Chris Kerin has the view that Strata is responsible on a strict liability basis and Easty has the view that there must be negligence before Strata are responsible. Jimmy T backs Chris Kerin but with an argument that does not seem to apply. I think there is a difference between the case of damage to a fixture Strata did not know about and damage caused by common property to contents.

                     

                    My immediate response (after calling the plumber) was that I should not be out of pocket. Strata had failed to control the water that was under their control and certainly was not under mine. I call it the Tort of Mischief rather than the Tort of Negligence. But I do take Easty’s point that Strata could end up in all sorts of monetary trouble if my Tort of Mischief wins the day. The way round it, I think, would be for Strata to require all owners to have contents insurance with a reasonable excess, and for Strata to be responsible for the excess if damage was caused to contents from common property.

                     

                    But that is a longer term solution. I’m still stuck with two completely opposite views. Do any of you have a view as to how I should proceed?

                    #12953
                    Jimmy-T
                    Keymaster

                      So you think my opinion, backing Chris Kerin's but countering Easty's view that there must be negligence before the OC is liable,  “doesn't apply”?

                      In that case, my best advice is to trust no one, apply your extensive legal knowledge (plus the free legal advice you have been given – by a lawyer who is expert in this field, no less) and run the case yourself. 

                      See how much out of pocket you are after that.

                       

                      This topic is now closed.

                      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
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