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  • #10507
    grahamd
    Flatchatter

      My question relates to a by-law for a 3 bed apartment we are buying off the plan. It states that pets are allowed (specifically dogs up to 10kg). We have a 25kg Labrador who is house trained, doesn’t bark and is generally afraid of her own shadow. Do I ignore the by-law and just move in with my dog or do I do the right thing and apply for an exemption?. In which case, given the OC and EC don’t exist yet, how do I go about it.

      I don’t want to get anyone offside, but nor do I want to give up my companion.

      This is my first post so please forgive me if this is the wrong forum or format.

      Thanks

    Viewing 6 replies - 1 through 6 (of 6 total)
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    • #25031
      Sir Humphrey
      Strataguru

        First up. This is a silly by-law/rule. Some small dogs are not well suited to apartments (need constant stimulation, run around, bark etc) and some large dogs are well suited (happy to laze about all day even if they missed a walk). 

        If you were not buying off the plan I might suggest investigating what culture has evolved. Perhaps larger dogs are tolerated routinely and the rule has languished for years without ever being applied. If that were the case you might take a chance that you could move in with the dog and seek to update the rule to something more sensible through the proper democratic process at a general meeting. 

        However, off the plan, who knows what the new owners will do. Strictly and pedantically apply the rule? How long might the developer still have control? Will the developer enforce the rule?

        You could investigate if this is a properly registered by-law. I assume that the bylaw/rule only takes effect when registered. Otherwise the default from the Act applies. Depending on what state you are in, there might be a default rule in the Act or the matter might be covered within the Act. 

        Others here will have to advise if you are somewhere other than the ACT. In the ACT, s.32 of the Unit Titles (Management) Act 2011 states that “a unit owner may keep an animal, or allow an animal to be kept … only with the consent of the owners corporation” which may be given “with or without conditions” but “must not be unreasonably withheld”. The default rules do not cover animals. Any custom rule on animals must be consistent with s.32 but could have a custom rule. If the rule you described were in the ACT, you would have to apply to have your dog in the unit. To do otherwise would be a breach of the Act. If your application were rejected, you could argue that the rule is of no effect because it is inconsistent with the Act because it is unreasonable to reject a placid dog such as yours. However, you could find yourself having to make that argument in the tribunal. 

        There are Tribunal precedent cases you could draw on to support this position, perhaps in other states too. In the ACT, our Tribunal is inclined to draw on decisions in other states if there is no local case history to draw on. 

        If the developer still has complete control of the owners corporation, any decision it makes is a unanimous decision. You could say that you will buy the unit, but only with permission granted for your dog. 

        #25032
        Jimmy-T
        Keymaster

          @grahamd said:

          This is my first post so please forgive me if this is the wrong forum or format.

          Right forum, right format and not only that, a nice, short subject heading.  Given that some people are posting questions where the heading is longer than the content, you ought to get a medal.

          The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
          #25034
          Whale
          Flatchatter

            grahamd – I agree with PeterC to the extent that your Plan’s “rule” is so open to subjective interpretation that from that perspective at least it’s indeed “silly”, but as you’re in N.S.W. you need to check that a by-law in those terms has been properly Registered with the Strata Title by the Developer. You should already have been given a copy of the Strata Title, but otherwise you can search the relevant details HERE.

            Registered or not, any of the Plan’s by-laws may be confirmed, amended, repealed, or added to by way of a compulsory motion on the agenda of the first General Meeting of the Owners Corporation once formed (or at any subsequent Meeting where no more than 25% of Owners disagree).

            So were I in your shoes I wouldn’t rely on any of that, as quite frankly the intent of the off-the-plan “rule” to limit the physical characteristics of dogs that may be permitted post occupation is a reasonable one, albeit subjective, that you would in my opinion have difficulty challenging, even in circumstances where the Developer granted a worthless exemption (in order to secure a sale).

            So what can you do?

            If you’re determined or otherwise committed to the purchase, then you need to accept a likely situation where you will be at some stage found to be in breach of the Plan’s by-laws, and to thereafter be involved in a quasi legal process involving the NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal and a set of scales where, given your prior knowledge of the situation regarding pets at the Plan and the Owners Corporation’s reasonable approach (by not banning pets outright), you would very likely be issued with an Order to remove your dog.

            #25035
            Sir Humphrey
            Strataguru

              This ACAT decision might have some helpful tidbits and shed light on the workings of legal minds:

              https://www.acat.act.gov.au/judgment/view/8287/title/nevile-v-owners-units-plan

              Does NSW have a provision in the Act like the ACT one: that permission shall not be unreasonably refused?

              If so, and if you have expert evidence of your dogs benign behaviour, as was used in the case reference above, you might have a case to make that the rule is silly = unreasonable. 

              More specifically, are labradors on the RSPCA list that is referenced?

              #25036
              Whale
              Flatchatter

                Whale said….given your prior knowledge of the situation regarding pets at the Plan and the Owners Corporation’s reasonable approach (by not banning pets outright), you would very likely be issued with an Order to remove your dog.

                PeterC said….Does NSW have a provision in the Act like the ACT one: that permission shall not be unreasonably refused?

                Peter – as it appears every State and Territory of Australia merely tweaks the most recent version of whichever one has the most recent strata legislation, the answer to your question re. both the current and proposed NSW Legislation is YES, and as I was trying to point out somewhat obliquely, grahamd would in my opinion be hard-pressed to successfully argue against the decisions chocolate-wheel of the NSW Civil & Administrative Tribunal (NCAT), the ACAT, VCAT, QCAT, or any other State or Territory “CAT” that a By-Law in the terms suggested was unreasonable.

                It’s of course grahamd”s call, but personally, as a Lab. is a largish dog for apartment living that’s therefore not listed on the RSPCA’s Register, I couldn’t argue by-law ignorance (not that its an excuse) and therefore wouldn’t be inclined to try my luck; but that’s me.

                Over and out!

                #25039
                Sir Humphrey
                Strataguru

                  I don’t have any experience of NCAT and perhaps it is a lottery but I have been impressed by the ACAT. I have been there 7 times now about various OC matters. Each time we have had a very reasonable result but it did take work to present a good case. The Tribunal members can only work with what you give them. 

                  I am not advocating a blatant disregard for the OC rules but I do suggest working out where you are at with the developer vs. the nascent OC, whose rule it is, whether it is registered and enforceable. 

                  While Whale suggests the NCAT would be likely to find a blanket size-limit to be reasonable and therefore consistent with the Act, the case I cited had an Irish Wolfhound approved for apartment residence after refusal was found to be unreasonable. The OC’s case seemed ill-prepared whereas the dog owner had reputable sources, the dog’s vet and trainer all providing expert evidence that this dog would be fine. Expert testimony carried the day. 

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