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The original complaint is in this Forum under the headline “The beat goes on … and on …”
I was having trouble with a Ducati-riding, yuppi EC member who was fond of showing off his throbber to yuppi mates on otherwise quiet Sunday afternoons.
I fixed it by recording the noise ambiently from the middle of our kitchen and sending the sound file and an explanatory note by email to him, the rest of the committee and the strata manager; I had to provide one CD to one old biddy who didn’t do email; showing how loud it actually was.
This fixed the inconsiderate wanker.
You’ll be amazed at the ease of operation and excellent quality of the recorders built into mobiles, iPods, cameras and such and it’s usually easy to just drop the audio files on to your computer and into an email on onto a CD.
Finally, let me say you sound like a very reasonable person… too reasonable… harden up!
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You will almost certainly have recourse under your by-laws about people not disturbing the peceful anjoyment of others lots. Get the EC to shut the drummer up and move him on. There are plenty of rehearsal spaces available.
And don’t hold back – installing a drummer in a strata development is the absolute height of selfishness.
If she’s so worried about junior’s career in music, your neighbour can shell out for electronic drum that only he will hear.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
The name of the original poster had to be removed because she used her real name which could lead to the identification of her neighbours. That's why this response come under 'Mailbox'.
Thanks for the advice.I wrote the mother another letter stating I will not change my agreed times for drumming practice, I attached a copy of the strata bylaw on noise,(eg, interfering with peaceful enjoyment of one owner to another), also suggested if she still wasn't happy , the Executive committee should be involved now (Gave the EC a copy of my correspondence as well).My husband is a member of the EC, but so are two other owners that are very friendly with the mother.Weekend was heaven,no drumming, just have to wait now to see what the mother comes back with this time.
The name of the original poster had to be removed because she used her real name which could lead to the identification of her neighbours.
Well, the drummer is still driving me crazy.In response to my last letter the mother has now advised me in writing of the following after seeking advice about my complaint of drumming practice 7 days a week:
1.She is not in breach of any council regulation2.Interpretation of the by-law is subjective
3.She reserves the right to conduct any lawful activity in her own home, at her own discretion, this includes music practice to take place any time during the hours stipulated by our local council.
Fair Trading took two weeks to get back to me with a definition of the noise by-law,their answer was they couldn’t define it & to call the Strata Schemes section & ask them, which I will try to do today (Executive Committee won’t do anything until I know the by-law definition).
Our Strata Manager cannot define the by-law either so can any of the forum specialists help me please.The drumming practice is continuing most weekday afternoons (sometimes with electric guitars as well) & as of yesterday, Sunday afternoon again, when I especially requested peace & quiet.I had to shut all my doors & turn on the TV so I could listen to something other than drumming for an hour.Am I hitting my head up against a brick wall or can I stop this legally?
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
The original poster, now going under the handle “Snared” was asked to reproduce the by-law relating to noise.
Our by-law on noise is the standard one as follows:
“An owner or occupier of a lot must not create any noise on a lot or the common property likely to interfere with the peaceful enjoyment of the owner or occupier of another lot or of any person lawfully using common property.”
OK, that’s clear. The by-law certainly covers this kind of noise and all you have to prove is that this neighbour ‘s noise is disturbing you.
As a first step, if you can, get a couple of members of the executive committee to come round at one of the usual practice times to hear for themselves. Bear in mind that State and council noise pollution laws apply when the windows and doors of the affected unit are OPEN so there’s no need for you to lock yourself away from this noise. The EC members can then go back to the EC and ask that a Notice To Comply be issued to the other owner.
If they use the usual cop-out of “this is between two neighbours” your next step is to request a mediation at Fair Trading – download and print the form HERE. Meanwhile gather as much material as you can in support of your case (see below). This should include a diary that states when the noise occurred, how long it went on for, how loud it was and how many instruments were being played. Start keeping this diary NOW.
Your drummer’s mother may not even turn up for the mediation or will and deny there’s a problem. It’s usually a waste of time in a conflict like this but it’s a process you have to go through to get to the next stage. By the way, I wouldn’t be suggesting times when the kid can practice … that undermines your case and may suggest to some that it’s not really that bad.
The next stage is an adjudication at the CTTT. This is done on paper so that’s when you have to have all your ammunition ready to go. Finally if one or other of you disputes the adjudication, there’s a hearing in front of a Member of the CTTT – again, your paperwork has to be watertight.
Here’s what you need to present your case.
A copy of your by-laws
Statements from friends and neighbours saying that they have heard the noise. Preferably Notarised by a JP.
Recordings of the noise (you can probably do this on your mobile phone if you don’t have a recorder). A handy 12-year-old will tell you how to transfer this to your computer and then burn it on CD.
Your ‘disturbance” diary.
All the correspondence from the other owner that acknowledges that her son is indeed practising in their garage.
One final thing, the CTTT presents itself as a “low-cost” adjudicator that doesn’t require lawyers. However, they are incredibly pedantic and legalistic and the slightest excuse – like one missing piece of paper – and they’ll dismiss your case.
I would be talking to a specialist strata lawyer about this right now if I were you.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
Thank you for all your help.I will start with the diary.
In regards to other neighbours hearing the noise, the mother stated in one of her letters to me that she “canvassed other neighbours as they passed by her place & they did not find the noise offensive”I replied that if I only had to pass by I wouldn't find the noise offensive either & to ask them again if they had to live with it 7 days a week.My Townhouse is directly across the driveway from her garage & the noise comes straight at my windows & doors.My husband is one of the executive committee, does he have to step away from the committee?
Can you recommend a strata lawyer specialist?
The test isn’t whether or not the noise is offensive, it’s whether or not it “disturbs the peaceful enjoyment of your lot”. It’s about geography, not aesthetics or opinions, so her ‘survey’ is irrelevant.
Your husband should use his position on the EC to arrange a “site visit” and then, if he chooses, he can withdraw from the vote on whether or not to issue a notice to comply (although he doesn’t have to).
There are other options. The NSW Office of Environment and Heritage has issued a leaflet on noise pollution (which, ironically, has a drawing of a drum on the front). You can read that HERE.
It advises other options like contacting your local council (don’t take your neighbour’s word that they aren’t in breach) and seeking a Noise Abatement Order from the District Court.
There are other legal avenues open to you (like seeking damages for loss of amenity and stress) the threat of which might be enough to get them to stop.
There’s a pretty substantial list of good strata lawyers if you click on Essential Links at the top of this page.
By the way, your strata manager needs a kick up the backside if he or she can’t see that this is a clear breach of the by-laws.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
Tried a few of your suggestions heres the latest:
1. Contacted the Strata Manager again after Fair Trading told me they can't define the Noise By-Law either but if I feel my peaceful enjoyment is being interfered with I should ask the SM to issue A Notice to Comply to the other owner.SM responded with “ask Fair Trading for mediation” so I forwarded SM this morning an email reply from one of the Strata lawyers at TEYS stating Executive Committe should ask SM to issue the Notice, so I asked SM again to please contact the EC to issue the notice.Told SM Fair Trading mediation will take forever & this situation is causing me great stress & impacts on my home life so I want a solution as soon as possible.
2. Contacted our local council & they replied they can act on my behalf even if the noise is within their guidelines so I asked them to please do that.
Will keep you updated on my progress.
Things have moved on since my last post.I emailed a copy of Simone from TEYS lawyers reply to me stating the EC should issue a Notice to Comply to the Strata manager, he finally convened a meeting of the EC at his office on Tuesday 5th July at 10.00am but advised them they don't have to attend, just drop their vote into his office before Tuesday (he emailed the paperwork last Tueasday to the EC).One of the drummers mothers friends on the EC showed her the contents of the Notice to Comply on the night the paperwork arrived(I had to supply the information to complete the Notice to Comply)The mother immediately sent emails to the Strata Manager complaining I was telling lies & being spiteful to her son by trying to shut him down permanently.I was stopping a traditional past-time of a growing adolescent, & it was a serious matter that I was trying to stop him playing his musical instrument.The Strata manager sent a copy of her emails to the EC (I know this because my husband is a member) & I requested a right of reply which the Strata manager also fowarded to the EC.I examined all the paper work that he sent to the EC in the Notice to Comply& noticed some documents were missing, I emailed them to the Strata manager & asked him to include them but he told me the drummers mother does not have the luxury that I do to see the all the paperwork (what a joke when her friends were showing her).He said the EC had enough information now & I was to leave them to make their decision tomorrow.I couldn't ask for a site visit at the weekend then but not surprsingly, the drummer & guitars have been quiet since the Notice to Comply paperwork arrived last Tuesday.
I am not expecting a vote in my favour tomorrow except for my husband so am I allowed to ask the EC to explain why they don't think the Noise By-Law is being breached when drumming & guitar practice takes place on a regular basis in the garge of my neighbours townhouse.Is my next step CTTT or Fair Trading?My local council sent her a letter after I contacted them requesting her to take appropriate action to reduce the noise but I don't know exactly what they said to her.
I will also film & record the practice when it starts up again so I have sound to back up my complaint.I have started my log on practice times.
Anthing else I should be doing before the next step ?
Check with your lawyers but if the EC doesn’t do the right thing, the next step may be to get a noise abatement order from your district court as well as legal costs and damages for the stress caused.
Alternatively, you could pursue this through Fair Trading and the CTTT but it is a long and convoluted process and there’s no guarantee of success if you are right (which it sounds as if you are).
There is a right to peace and quiet enshrined in strata law. There is no “right’ to learn a musical instrument at someone else’s expense.
If this selfish mother thinks her son’s rock career is so important, let him practice in his bedroom or maybe she could pay for a practice space. There’s no way you should suffer for his “art”.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
Well, officially I have been shut down by the EC & the Strata manager, EC voted no to issuing the Notice to Comply, when I asked for an explanation from them at the AGM this Thursday (14th), Strata Manager said it is too late to add any motions & even though I have had other advice the matter is not a Strata issue but a problem between two owners,& I should seek mediation at Fair Trading.I emailed the EC still requesting an explanation as to why practicing drums & guitars by teenagers without adult supervision in a Townhouse garage is not breaching the Noise by-Law so I can show Fair Trading, CTTT, District Court & our local Council why I can't pursue it under Strata Laws.So I guess I am in for the long haul now, will let you know how I go over the next weeks/months?
What a shower of useless paper shufflers! FYI: You should be able to raise this at the AGM under “correspondence” and, I would certainly be asking owners if they want to elect people who are not going to do anything to enforce by-laws if it doesn't suit them. Why elect people to do nothing?
Unfortunately OCs and ECs in NSW don't have any obligation to enforce by-laws. But the avenues still open to you are via council, a noise abatement order from the district court, as well as through Fair Trading.
If you go down the District Court route, at least you can demand costs and I think you might be able to use the fact that the Executive Committee has ducked this on as a good reason for not going through Fair Trading (which, to be honest, I would avoid if I could).
If you're not already talking to a lawyer, start now. And gather all that evidence. Best of luck with it.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
Thank you, I am glad to have some support, when I replied to the Strata manager this morning I asked him why the EC & him were the only ones that think the by-Law is not being breached & is not a Strata Issue, he hasn't bothered to reply.Simone from TEYS Lawyers has been advising me as well, she has emailed me information today on mediation & CTTT & offered a fee proposal for me to consider before engaging their services.I am enjoying peace & quiet at the moment, the drummer & his mates are on school holidays & must have gone away, but I am sure once he returns & knows he has the support of the EC, practice will start again.To be continued…..
Saw your weekly paper column at the weekend, thanks for the ongoing support.The drumming seems to have stopped since my last rant via email at the EC, and as I predicted the drummers mother is now on the EC ( got herself elected at the AGM IN July)with all the previous members (her friends) as well as my husband, (can't wait for the first EC meeting to be convened.)The Secretary of the EC approached me in the street last week & said” don't think you have been ignored but I didn't have the keys to the EC mailbox for months & only just found your letters the other day” Still waiting to hear what they have to say for themselves, & why the drumming seems to have stopped, maybe I should give them a copy of your weekend column to read & ask for their comments.As an owner but not a member of the EC can I attend the EC meetings?Do I have to ask permission or just turn up?
Congrats on silencing the drummer – however it happened. As an ordinary owner you can attend an EC meeting but they have to agree or vote to let you speak before you can do so.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
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