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  • #8989
    HappyNow
    Flatchatter

      I just wonder why they would do this?

      Any legal reason? 

      Does it fair badly for the EC and Strata Manager if they do not attend mediation and it goes to CTTT?

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    • #19248
      Kangaroo
      Flatchatter

        Not out of the ordinary.

        Attempted mediation is a prerequiste step to any dispute other than the OC asking for a fine to be imposed after a Notice to Comply with By-Law has been ignored.

        Mediation costs time and money, especialy if the SM has to attend, and it is not compulsory, either party may decline to attend.

        If either party believes their case is iron-clad, why go where you are expected to compromise?

        What is the nature of the dispute?

        #19249
        HappyNow
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          What is the nature of the dispute?

          Answer: 

          a) Misc invoice applied to my account – said it was due to removalist truck damage. Invoice is for an ‘enhancement to the gate’ of a stopgate.  Removalist truck did point out fence was broken on the day BUT it wasn’t broken by them. Was already broken with a brick holding it closed (we have pic). EC are refusing to discuss and have now moved it to bad debt unrecoverable. Means I cannot vote in AGM etc.  Written requests for explanation ignored.

          b) Common wall between 4 units has water penetration. Complex only 4 years old. Other units with water penetration claimed via Builders Insurance.  The 4 units I am attached to are being repaired under ‘sinking fund’ claim. Same water penetration but levies are paying for repairs. Why? No explanation from OC or Strata Manager. 3 quotes obtained ranging from $16K, $3K, $404. Initially chose $404 option until we requested copy of liability insurance.  OC have now chosen $3K option. No explanation as to why and no explanation as to why not an insurance claim for common property water penetration.

          3) Dysfunctional EC and Strata Manager. No education is being undertaken to the EC representing the OC. Favouritism, unprofessional decisions, as over 55’s complex, no one wants to ‘pay’ to keep new building in good area with responsible sinking fund. Treasurer stated at AGM in April no outlay would be made from sinking fund for next 3 years.  Obviously incorrect statement.

          #19251
          kiwipaul
          Flatchatter

            From Strata Schemes Management Regulation 2010

            24 Attendance and representation
            (1) A mediation session must be attended by each party or by a legal representative, or other representative, having authority to settle the matter.

            If they refuse to attend obtain this refusal in writing from the mediator and then proceed on to the Adjudication hearing and I would strongly suspect this would be taken into account by the Adjudicator as being unreasonable (so you’d get bronwie points).

            The damage should be an insurance claim (unless they claim it was malicious) against Strata Insurance and the insurance firm would then take action against you to recover the cost BUT they would have to prove you were the cause (not just assume).

            As for chooseing the 4K repair this was an OC decision and so you would have been able to vote on the motion that was put forward (should have been anyway). I don’t believe thay can refuse your vote just because of an unsubstantiated claim and you can get the adjudicator to consider this as well.

            You can bring up multiple failures of the SM, EC and OC at the adjudication all for the same price $78.

            #19254
            HappyNow
            Flatchatter
            Chat-starter

              Thank you.  I have been fighting this dysfunctional EC committee and Owners Corporation (thanks to favourites and proxies to the Chairman) for 3 years now.  I have paid the $78 for Fair Trading mediation AND I have paid the $78 for CTTT hearing as I approached CTTT first and they said I had to go the mediation path first, even though I had travelled this way before on another matter.  So I continue to keep my head high and have asked the CTTT to

              a) request a reversal the miscellaneous invoice against my unit for gate enhancement

              b) explain to the OC, EC and Strata Managers that this IS an insurance claim and is on the building report initially obtained and paid for by owners 3 years ago when a special levy was raised and with the result that my Unit was noted as having water penetration on the common property wall

              c) request that the dysfunctional EC AND Strata Manager be dismissed and a replacement Strata Manager installed

              Amazing that the 3 other units involved here just do not have the energy to fight for their rights.

               

               

              #19256
              Kangaroo
              Flatchatter

                I don’t know where you saw the expression “bad debt unrecoverable”, but to me it means the debt has been officially written off, so should not make you unfinancial (if you’ve paid your levies).

                #19262
                HappyNow
                Flatchatter
                Chat-starter

                  This has been re-edited by me … hope it now makes the sense that was intended … JimmyT

                  Kiwi Paul said

                  As for choosing the 4K repair this was an OC decision and so you would have been able to vote on the motion that was put forward (should have been anyway).

                  ‘As an owner, the OC was not advised nor asked to vote on the cost of the repairs for the water penetration.  As mentioned they ranged from $16K to $3K to a mere $404.00   A normal EC would have submitted the quotes to the OC so they could see the quotes to see what was being repaired and why

                  Kangaroo said 
                  I don’t know where you saw the expression “bad debt unrecoverable”, but to me it means the debt has been officially written off, so should not make you unfinancial (if you’ve paid your levies).

                  The ‘bad debt unrecoverable’ was in the minutes of the Executive Committee meeting and the Strata Managers notification to me.

                  I leave you to form your own opinions of this dysfunctional EC and Strata Manager!

                   
                  #19274
                  Jimmy-T
                  Keymaster

                    @SlapShot said:
                    I just wonder why they would do this?

                    Any legal reason? 

                    Does it fair badly for the EC and Strata Manager if they do not attend mediation and it goes to CTTT?

                    This is the first item in this thread.  What is it referring to?  Is it a posting on another thread.  If so where?  And why?

                    The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                    #19275

                    JT – I assume Slap Shot’s first comment is referring to the “topic” being “EC and Strata Manager decided not to attend mediation”. I am pretty sure I have seen previous posts from Slap Shot possibly referring to the same issues (specifically the “insurance claim”.

                    Slap Shot – there is no reason for the OC to pay the strata manager hourly rates to attend a mediation session where the parties do not believe any common ground exists OR if there is already a process in place to bring about a resolution to the issue in dispute.

                    I treasurer can not claim categorically that there will be no expenditure from the sinking fund. Perhaps they did not expect any expenditure but this is different.

                    Voting rights have no correlation to unpaid miscellaneous invoices only unpaid/overdue levies. If you are making levy payments, ensure that you specify that the payments are for levies only and NOT the miscellaneous invoice.

                    If the OC believes that the gate was damaged by an impact from a vehicle they should lodge a claim with the insurance company for accidental impact damage. Feel free to give them the details of the removalist company and both parties insurance companies can fight it out. No reason for you or the EC to get involved any further. Unless you intentionally damaged the gate personally there is no reason for you to be held liable.

                    If the water penetration can be rectified with an outlay of around $3k this is likely to be more cost effective than lodging and fighting over a builders warranty claim. It will undoubtable fix the issue much sooner than following the insurance claim/litigation path. Ultimately the OC are responsible to maintain common property and if the easiest, quickest and most commercially viable option to do this is to pay for the repairs themselves then there is not reason to lodge builders warranty claims.

                    As for asking for a compulsory appointment of a strata manager, be careful what you wish for. The strata manager will be given ALL powers of the OC with NO voting rights by ANY owners. This only ever results in special levies…

                    #19280
                    Jimmy-T
                    Keymaster

                      @just get on with it said:
                      JT – I assume Slap Shot’s first comment is referring to the “topic” being “EC and Strata Manager decided not to attend mediation”. 

                      Ahhh … silly me, didn’t have my thinking hat on.  As an old journo,  for me  the headline is a summary of the story – not the first line.  As an aside, I wish I could do something about people writing a novel instead of a topic title … but then I also have people going into the Parking Peeves section and writing “Parking Problem” as the headline. Yeah, we could have guessed that’s why you’re here.

                      Enough of my gripes! To get back to the subject in hand, it could cost the EC between $500 and $1000 to get the strata manager to prepare a response and attend a mediation.

                      Double that if you involve lawyers and double it again if the strata manager or lawyer is expected to respond to an adjudication.

                      As JGOWI says, the EC may be so sure of their ground that they have decided that it’s not worth the time and money  involved – although that could come back to bite them on the bum when the big bills come in further down the track.

                       

                      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                      #19859
                      HappyNow
                      Flatchatter
                      Chat-starter

                        Thanks for the feedback.  the 3 items have now gone to CTTT for adjudication. Submissions due in by 22/10.  I hope the adjudicator is wiser than the EC.

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