Flat Chat Strata Forum Living in strata Current Page

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  • #8010
    Jimmy-T
    Keymaster

      QUESTION: Does anyone know of any laws that require an apartment block to have a front security door? I am living in a small block of fewer than 15 units and the main entrance to the building does not lock.

      I am worried about security. I have asked for the matter to be put forward at the next general meeting, but am having a hard time finding evidence other than crime statistics in the area to back up my request.

      The executive committee have made it clear that they don’t want the front door to lock. I would like to provide them with some ‘legal obligations’ to assist in this matter getting resolved in the meeting. –  Apple45 via Flat Chat Forum

      ANSWER: There is no strata law that I know of compelling buildings to have security of any kind.  But check your by-laws.  For instance, my building has by-law obliging the Owners Corp to take all reasonable measures to maintain security and safety of residents.

      Failing that, your best bet is to make a compelling argument directly to all owners, effectively cutting the EC out of the equation.

      Firstly talk to the community liaison or crime prevention officer at your local police station and ask them to do a security audit of your building.  Then gather crime statistics and get local real estate agents to tell you what difference having a secure building makes to property values.

      Present this directly to owners as a low-cost investment (with costings) that will enhance the values of their properties and ask for their support. However try not to word it as an attack on the EC.

      Struggler, one of our Forum StrataGurus made much the same points but adds this warning: “Consider that you would have to have an intercom system installed as well so that your visitors can get in. And that’s where the cost would be.”

      Fortunately, these days there are several wireless intercom options than are relatively inexpensive and easy to install. Google ‘wireless intercom system’ and see for yourself.

      Read the whole conversation … and join in HERE

      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
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    • #15072
      leif
      Flatchatter

        Flat Chat March 24 2012 EC has a false sense of security.

        This seems to be a common issue, but has two answers the one given is commonly the only one addressed.

        The issue answered is for building enhancement and the associated
        cost issues.

        But the reality is most buildings where originally fitted with locks that may have been only operational (lockable) for a short time (during construction).

        The main reason for making the locks inoperational or in some instances removed are the issues addressed in the answer stating the inconvenience and the lack of an intercom system and the expense to fit one.

        If the building did have locks fitted at the time of registration as a strata plan, the strata acts states that the locks should be kept in good and operational condition.

        If this is the case only a unanimous decision by all owners can downgrade the building features like the removal of features like security.

        If the door lock has a key hole and is now in operational or there is evidence that the locking feature has been removed it is a maintenance issue and no justification for maintenance is required nor can the downgrade be justified under any circumstances outside a unanimous owners vote.  

        Typically this issue are hidden under maintenance but can be seen under the expenses of purchasing new (unlockable) locks commonly associated with replacing a “round” handle with a “leaver” handle under fire (exit) safety.
         

        It seems to be a common issue where features has been removed without any documentation and later when an owner requests the reinstalment of the feature it is treated as a new feature and rejected as not economical to implement.

        Asking for perceived new expensive features that may not be wanted by some seems a waste of time and effort.

        The clever way may be to formally ask for a vote for the removal of the feature installed as built and present when registered as a strata plan and as you would vote against it would not succeed as it does not achieve unanimous status.  

        As not maintaining and prevention of maintenance is an criminal offence it may quietening the loud opponents in the EC that commonly thinks security starts at the entrance of a lot.  

        Finally if the locks are maintained as required, it is likely that an intercom system would be installed sooner than later.  

        Or have I got it totally wrong?

        #15076
        Jimmy-T
        Keymaster
        Chat-starter

          Lief

          What you seem to be saying is that there would have been a lock on the front door during the building period (or all the gear and building supplies would have been stolen) and there probably hasn't ever been any motion passed to remove that lock which is common property. 

          So what you do is propose a motion at a general meeting that the lock that would have been there (and isn't any more) should be formally removed.  Then you and others who want a locked front door vote against the motion (which would require a 75 % vote to pass), the motion falls and you can then insist that the EC reinstates the lock because the vote required to remove it has failed.

          Hey, if this stands up it is a stroke of genius. But I can't help thinking there must be a flaw in it somewhere.

          And, just being nit-picky, failure to maintain common property isn't criminal offence – its a civil breach (more's the pity).

          The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
          #15099
          DavidR
          Flatchatter

            As a service provider in the electronic security industry with much experience in the strata environment, I'd be more than happy to provide you with some site specific recommendations and an estimate of costs associated. In addition to the access control and intercom requirements, we are also able to perform any additional work that may be required to facilitate the desired outcome. (In older buildings, the front door, frame and adjacent window/s are often replaced as part of the “security building upgrade” if they are past their prime. For a door to automatically close and lock reliably, the door needs to close unimpeded every time).

             

            Wireless intercom solutions were mentioned, but my advice would be to stay with a hard wired system for reliability and serviceability. Although a wireless system may have a lower installation cost, the actual equipment will be much more expensive than wired, and the technology is far from perfect.

             

            In terms of price, I think you'll find that it's not all that bad, particularly with fifteen owners to share the cost. It's much more of a hurdle when there are only three or four units in a block.

             

            Another way of achieving greater value for money is to incorporate other work into the same project. If we're going to be running a cable to every unit anyway, then the cost to pull an extra cable in for NBN connectivity, a CCTV system or pay TV is a small addition now, but will save tens of thousands of dollars compared to separate projects.

            #15117
            leif
            Flatchatter

              Jimmy

              I agree that under special resolution,
              (a resolution which is passed at a duly convened meeting of an owners
              corporation and against which not more than one quarter in value of votes is cast against),
              changes can be made:

              1. Under maintenance if its decision will not affect the safety of any building, structure or common property in the strata scheme or detract from appearance of any property in the strata scheme.

              2. Under property change for the purpose of improving or enhancing the
               common property.

              But I do believe that for changes that affects the safety of any building,
              structure or common property and does not improve or enhance the
              common property a unanimous decision by the owners are required
              as the majority cannot diminishing the value of a single lot.

              This changes the required objection to one and a unanimous decision is not achieved.

              #15126

              All this talk of changes to common property, meetings and votes … does that mean that we would need to put a vote to owners before the EC can change the external doors to self-closing and locking?

               

              I recently posted a query in relation to a slightly different issue arising from this change in security to our building but hadn't thought to ask about the validity of changes without votes!

              #15128
              Jimmy-T
              Keymaster
              Chat-starter

                leif said:

                Jimmy

                I do believe that for changes that affects the safety of any building, structure or common property and does not improve or enhance thecommon property a unanimous decision by the owners are required as the majority cannot diminishing the value of a single lot.

                I fear you are getting into semantics here. I reckon they are pretty safe to go ahead with this and present the plan for a vote because it is arguable that the whole point is to improve security and enhance common property and let anyone who thinks otherwise argue it through the CTTT and the courts after the matter. The clause you refer to is clearly designed to prevent a majority of owners planning something that detrimentally affects a building  (because they benefit but a minority of owners don't).  This is clearly not the case here and you'd be hard put to convince a judge or an adjudicator otherwise.

                I also think that under normal circumstances, this would only require a simple majority vote by the Owners Corp at a general meeting as it's part of the process of maintaining an upgrading facilities to adapt to changes in the community as a whole (but I may be wrong).

                The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                #15129
                Jimmy-T
                Keymaster
                Chat-starter

                  Michelle said:

                  All this talk of changes to common property, meetings and votes … does that mean that we would need to put a vote to owners before the EC can change the external doors to self-closing and locking?

                  There has to be a vote somewhere along the line.  This is the kind of thing that could easily be handled at EC level (although they would do so knowing that if there were strong objections, they could be kicked out of office at the next AGM and even have the decision reversed).

                  Personally, I would get the EC to investigate the costs and options and then present the best two to a general meeting before going any further. That way all the arguments can be had out in the open and the decision made would be final.

                  There may aklso be restrictions on the amount spent and the type of work required that would demand an AGM anyway. Your strata manager should advise.

                  The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                  #15130

                  Thanks Jimmy.

                  I was actually talked into going onto the EC (one of five).  The minutes of the last EC meeting (which I was unable to attend) has a list of items “to be discussed within the next 12 months”.  Most of these are general maintenance but some involve either changes to the building or significant expenditure and are being carried out without any discussions or meetings having been held.  I've sent a couple of emails raising issues or asking for information which have gone unanswered. 

                  At least on this one point, I can go to our SM and see what he advises.

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