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  • #9474
    Panamenke
    Flatchatter

      We have been having dramas with members of the EC (I am on the EC) and the Managing Agent.  Without going in to all the dramas I need to know the following:

      1.  An EGM has been scheduled for Thursday at 11am.  This makes it impossible for owners who work to attend.

      2. The agent has included a proxy sheet nominating the secretary as the person proxies are to be given to.

      3. There is a note that the meeting will be held via ‘telephone’ and the secretary will ‘call in’ with the votes.

      Is this legal?????????????????

       

      Next question:

      1. The secretary only became an owner on 13/12/2013.  Previously it was her husband however there has been a transfer of ownership and she is now the registered owner.  The AGM took place 22 June 2013.  There were no proxies.  This lady was nominated by 3 other owners to be on the committee however they also nominated themselves.  I am sure this contravenes Strata Laws – as she was not an owner at that time, did not have a proxy and was nominated by owners who had also nominated themselves.  This is invalid then –  am I correct?

       

      Next question:

      2. There are 7 members on the committee.  Four members make the decisions (including the Secretary who shouldn’t be there) so in essence excluding the 3 remaining members.  The four elected themselves to be Chairman, Secretary and Treasurer.  This was done between themselves and not at the first meeting after the AGM.  We have only had one EC meeting since the AGM and I raised the election of Office Bearers and also the validity of the Secretary even being on the Committee. The response was “we decided at the AGM who would do what” (the rest of us were not included in this discussion).  They confirmed there were no ‘proxies’ and when I queried why this person was on the Committee at all if she was nominated by the other 3 cronies.  There was no sound answer to this except -“they all wanted her there”.

       

      The BIG question – is this EGM next week valid??  Can I call it off due to the Secretary not having been voted correctly at the AGM?  Is it valid to hold a meeting via telephone with only one person invited to call?

      One of the Agenda items is whether or not to keep the Managing Agent and the Secretary and her pals want that hence the underhand methods of conducting meetings.  I am positive she should never have been elected in the manner she has but I am not clear on what legal avenues are open to the rest of us to stop the meeting.  It is unlikely many will be involved because most of us will be at work and there hasn’t been a number provided for a teleconference – I am thinking CTTT and Current Affair may be the way to go (specially with the media story running hot at present re the shooting at Lakemba) advice please?

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    • #21459
      Whale
      Flatchatter

        Gees, lots of question there!

        Perhaps I should respond to the most important one first, and then explain why.

        In my opinion the EGM is not properly constituted because:

        1) It’s doublful that even in 2014 ‘electroic meetings’ are legal. Even though that’s an excellent means to encourage participation and I employ on-line voting for General Meetings of our O/C, I’m of the opinion that a quorum must first be achieved at the physical location for the Meeting by those ‘present’ both personally and by proxy and entitled to vote. So even if the Secretary has “farmed” a whole lot of proxies with the assistance of your Strata Manager, she would still have to BE THERE in order to exercise those to achieve a quorum.

        2) On the subject of “proxy farming”, whilst it’s not illegal (yet) if your Strata Manager has directed Owners to grant their proxies to the Secretary as opposed to just sending the papers to her, then to be kind that’s naughty, and if they’ve actually written the Secretary’s name or position name on the prescribed Form before sending it out to Owners then that’s illegal.

        3) The Secretary was legally nominated and elected as a Member of the E/C, but if the other three nominated themselves (as opposed to nominating each other), then that too is illegal, as strictly speaking is their subsequent “vote” to appoint themselves because that should have occurred (and been Minuted) at the E/C Meeting following the conclusion of the AGM.

        So in my opinion an EGM convened and proposed to be held as you describe would be illegal unless item (1) is complied with, and whilst I can’t comment definatively on the other items because I don’t know the finer details, the best means to “call it off” would be for you or a like-minded Owner to advise the Secretary that you want to attend the Meeting personally. Then, armed with sufficient proxies from all those like-minded “workers” who don’t want the Strata Manager to be reappointed and/or other matters to be resolved at the Thursday Meeting by the means proposed, move a Motion to adjourn the Meeting and then use the proxies to pass it.

        If it’s too late for you to coordinate that approach, then you and/or the others who couldn’t attend the Meeting could apply for Sect 153 Orders to have all Resolutions invalidated on the grounds that the procedures of the Strata Schemes Management Act were not complied with, and that those Resolutions would have been determined differently if those procedures were followed.

        Maybe let your Strata Manager know about a possible Application for Orders if they’re less than forthcoming with a venue or if you can’t get the numbes between now and Thursday.

        #21470
        Panamenke
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          Thanks Whale

          Just another quick question – on top of the meeting notice it says “meeting to be held by Proxy” – surely this cannot be legal under Strata Laws???

          In essence the Proxy form has the name of the Secretary on it as being the one the proxy goes to, she will telephone the agent and the meeting is being held by proxy!!!!  I have been given proxies by some owners and total 9 votes.  Two owners will not be able to vote due to outstanding levies not paid.  I think the secretary will have 6 votes and there will be 6 ‘unsures’.  I have approached 3 of the “unsures” so waiting to hear from them and the other 3 I really have no idea how they will vote. 

          The agent works from home so I intend to go there with the proxy forms if I have enough (which I think I will have) but am totally confused about the telephone meeting and the term “meeting to be held by Proxy”.  Can someone enlighten me???

          #21473
          Whale
          Flatchatter

            I’m a migrating whale right now, and so I have to respond briefly whilst I have internet access.

            Whilst I’ve not come across this particular shenanigan before, I reiterate that a physical Meeting needs to take place, where Owners can either attend personally (as you and like-minded Owners should do) or have their proxies tabled by the Secretary on the Form prescribed in the Act, where the Owner granting their proxy is required to themselves write-in the name of the recipient. 

            One of your problems will be that proxies need to be given to the Secretary at or before the commencement of any General Meeting, so don’t hang onto them and present them to the Strata Manager on the day.

            The salient points are that a Meeting cannot be “held by proxy” and further the pre-completed proxies are not in compliance with the spirit or the requirements of the Act.

            So either attend the Meeting and, armed with your proxies and the personal attendance of like-minded Owners move that Motion to have the Meeting adjourned, and if all else fails seek those Sect 153 Orders; remember though that you’ll need to prove that the outcome/s of the Meeting would have been different had it been convened and held legally.

            Back on the road now – maybe Jimmy et al can add something additional that will assist.

            #21474
            imported_dech
            Blocked

              It looks legal in so far as that sufficient proxies go to one individual to be a quorum then that individual could “be” the meeting and vote on agenda items.

              #21501
              Whale
              Flatchatter

                Now that I’m briefly in an area that’s within Telstra’s 96% wireless coverage envelope, and even though Panamenke’s EGM is over…..

                YES dech, the Secretary (in this case) could “be” the Meeting, but there still needs to be a physical location for it so that those wishing to personally attend can.

                With regard to those pre-completed proxies, in addition to those needing to be completed by the Owners granting them, if they authorise the proxy to vote on the Motion relating to the re-appointment of the Strata Manager (S.M.) then that Owner must have themselves shown their voting instructions for that Motion at Item 3 of the Form, and conversely if Item 3 is blank, then the proxy can’t be used for that vote.

                Finally if Item 3 was also pre-completed by the S.M., then any proxy votes subsequently recorded against the Motion for their re-appointment would be invalid as they’d be conferring a pecuniary benefit (on the SM).

                #21505
                Panamenke
                Flatchatter
                Chat-starter

                  Hi Whale

                  Well, it was “interesting” to say the least!

                  Another owner and I attended the SM Office and took along all the proxies that had been given to us.  The SM works from home and her staff work in a converted garage.  We entered the office/garage and one of the young ladies showed us in to the dining room so in essence we were in the “private residence”.  We sat there for a few minutes and the SM came in and said “so you have some proxies for me”.  My colleague handed over the proxies and she said “thank you, I will send you an email this afternoon with the result”.  I asked “aren’t we having a teleconference with the Secretary?” she replied “no, I made this quite clear it was a ‘paper’ meeting”.  My colleague started to ask a question and she shut him up by saying again “it is a paper meeting and that was made clear on the agenda.”  I then said “I haven’t completed a proxy form because I am physically here to vote.”  She asked me how I would be voting and I said “exactly the same as the owners who have given us their proxy.”  She then told us to leave.  My colleague tried to speak i.e. give his vote and she got upset and said “I want you to leave now.”  I said “I thought we could attend the meeting and the secretary would telephone in”  she insisted we leave and since we were in her home I said to my colleague “we should go” and we left.

                  The minutes arrived yesterday and true to form they were wrong!  She listed the first item as “deferred” and items 2 and 3 “defeated”.  She noted that I had given my proxy to my colleague which is inaccurate because I was present and voted accordingly.  She also noted my colleague had given his proxy to himself!!!

                  Another strange comment she made was she said to the other owner and me “I wish you both peace”.  I bit my tongue because all I wanted was an agent who had integrity and was professional – she had neither

                  Now on to the task of meeting the agents who provided their tenders and getting someone who knows the Strata Laws and has integrity

                  Thanks Whale for your sound advice.

                  #21513
                  Whale
                  Flatchatter

                    No problem; I’m glad that you and those like-minded Owners achieved a good outcome.

                    One last word of advice though, before you go too far into the selection process for a new Strata Manager, check the Agreement with she who “wished you peace”, and specifically those clauses about termination (before the end of the Agreement if that’s relevant), and about the hand-over of your Owners Corporation’s records and accounts to a new Strata Manager.

                    Remember as “peaceful” as yours may now be, outgoing Strata Managers often behave like outgoing Governments and bury their mistakes; in this case that’s your records!

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