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  • #8867
    chak
    Flatchatter

      We as owners with enough unit entitlements call for an EGM, is it correct that we cannot set the date and time of the meeting? According to the SM, only he alone can dictate the time and date that is convenient for him to attend, technically.

      Can the SM attend the EGM or does he need to be invited? Can we have an EGM without the SM?

       

      If the SM rewrite our agenda and motions, can he send it out without letting us approve the amended agenda and motions?

       

      Thanks

    Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 22 total)
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    • #18631
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        All of this depends on the delegated powers (if any) that have been given to the Starta manager – but generally speaking the owners tell (or ask) the SM what to do, not the toher way round.

        The secretary of the EC sets the time and date of the EGM. But if the SM has that role, then they do. The strata manager doesn’t have either the right or oblication to attend a general meeting but if they have delegated powers or hold the proxies of owners, they may do so. Most Owners Corps would prefer to have their SM their to ensure that everything is done by the book.
        Only the secretary can decide on the final form of the agenda and motions – again is your SM also your secretary?

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #18632
        Sir Humphrey
        Strataguru

          The SM works for the OC not the other way around. I am not familiar with non-ACT details about delegation but I would expect that the EC and OC retains all powers they care to exercise if they consider it necessary even when some of those powers have been delegated for day to day purposes. So, if enough owners call for a general meeting you can have one. You can organise it anyway you care to so long as it is consistent with the requirements of the relevant Act. 

          In the ACT, the EC has to approve the proxy voting form which amounts to approving the agenda since the form lists the motions. 

          Consider that an OC might want to call a general meeting to decide to engage a different strata manager. If the SM were in charge you might not find that easy to do. 

          #18633
          chak
          Flatchatter
          Chat-starter

            Thanks. JimmyT- No the SM is not the secretary. He is not happy because I told the Management principal that we do not want him at the meeting.

            We have put forward an agenda and motions and the SM has amended it for suitable wording. Now the questions is if the SM send out the amended agenda and motions without our approval, what can we do?

            We wanted the EGM to sort out a few important issue like a special levy for $500,000 and if the SM changed it to suit himself and a few EC members and the EGM agenda will be totally different!!!

            Can we put to the secretary last minute motion for the EGM? How much time before the EGM?

            #18635
            Sir Humphrey
            Strataguru

              …We have put forward an agenda and motions and the SM has amended it for suitable wording. Now the questions is if the SM send out the amended agenda and motions without our approval, what can we do?…

              If I were on the EC, I would very quickly send an email to the managing agent, perhaps CC’d to the agent’s boss, and CC’d to all EC members stating the EC has not yet approved the amended wording and directs the managing agent to not send the meeting notice until the wording has been reviewed and approved by the EC. 

              Be polite but firm but make it clear (without using this expression) that the tail does not wag the dog. Acknowledge their expertise but also assert that the ultimately responsibility lies with the executive committee and you wish to be certain of what goes out in your name. 

               

              #18636
              Jimmy-T
              Keymaster

                In NSW you can submit motions for the AGM until such times as the agenda is issued. The agenda, as part of the notice of the meeting,  must be issued at least seven days before the meeting (which really means nine or ten days to allow for posting).

                To answer the original question about who can call a general meeting and when it should be held, this is what the Act in NSW says:

                The secretary of an executive committee or, in the secretary’s absence, any member of the executive committee must convene an extraordinary general meeting as soon as practicable after receiving a requisition for such a meeting signed by one or more persons entitled to vote in respect of one or more lots, the unit entitlement or the sum of the unit entitlements of which is at least one-quarter of the aggregate unit entitlements.

                The key issue is what does the word “practicable” mean?  How long is a piece of string?

                The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                #18637
                Kangaroo
                Flatchatter

                  I think your success will depend on whether you have either the Chairman or Secretary amongst those who requisition the EGM.

                  First of all, PeterC is correct in that “the EC and OC retains all powers they care to exercise”.

                  So, if the (owner) Chairman is amongst your number, he should care to chair the EGM, thus picking up any proxies nominating “The Chairman of the Meeting”, rather than the SM doing so.

                  Second, any one owner may submit a motion for the next GM.

                  So, after agreeing the wording amongst yourselves, do that.

                  Then, get your 25% to requisition the EGM.

                  I take a much firmer line than JT on whether anybody is entitled to re-word the motion as submitted. This is what the Act says (with my blue bolding):

                  36   Requisition for motion to be included on agenda for general meeting

                  (1)  Any person entitled to vote at a general meeting of an owners corporation on a motion that does not require a unanimous resolution may, by notice in writing served on the secretary of the executive committee, require inclusion in the agenda of the next general meeting of the owners corporation of a motion set out in the notice and the secretary must comply with the notice.

                  #18638
                  Jimmy-T
                  Keymaster


                    @Kangaroo
                    said:

                    Second, any one owner may submit a motion for the next GM.

                    Why have you underlined and bolded “one”?  What is the significance?

                    I take a much firmer line than JT on whether anybody is entitled to re-word the motion as submitted. 

                    I don’t disagree that the law is clear that the wording of the item on the agenda must take the form of words expressed in the notice sent by the owner concerned. However, a good strata manager or secretary will come back to the EC with suggestions if their motions’ intent is not well expressed.

                    In this case the secretary should not be rewriting motions, as you say, without the approval of the EC.  If the motion has been submitted by an ordinary owner, the strata manager should not be touching it at all.

                    However it’s not just the wording of the motions but their position in the batting order, which is decided by the secretary. 

                    For instance, I raised a motion at our last AGM that someone else chair the meeting, specifically to stop our chairman doing his annual one-man show that no-one is allowed to interrupt.  The secretary obediently put my motion second so that the chairman had his moment in the spotlight, rendering my motion irrelevant.

                     

                     

                     

                    The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                    #18639
                    Kangaroo
                    Flatchatter

                      @JimmyT said:
                      Why have you underlined and bolded “one”?  What is the significance?

                       

                      It sounded like an EGM was imminent but not yet called, so in the interest of not being out-manouvered, one owner could submit the motion, then round up the 25% needed to call the EGM.

                      Alternatively, if the 25% have all agreed the motion, it could be submitted with the requisition for the EGM.

                      And in case he couldn’t get the 25% for an EGM, it would still be on the agenda for the next AGM.

                      I totally agree that “batting order” is also important, but not controlled under the Act. I know of one Chairman/Secretary who, if a motion is received from an owner, will always write his own version and put it earlier on the agenda so that he can then rule the other owner’s motion as “out of order – already resolved”.

                       

                      #18641
                      Jimmy-T
                      Keymaster

                        That’s a very interesting tactic and thanks for explaining it. The Autocratic chair is an interesting creature – they almost always start with the best intentions, help to fix up some issue, and then cling to power long after their use-by date, believing that they and only they know what’s best for the building. It all leads to my patented three-phase strata cycle – chaotic, democratic then despotic, then it all falls apart and starts again.

                        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                        #18642
                        kiwipaul
                        Flatchatter

                          The SM doesn’t have to organize (or attend) the EGM your Sec can do it themselves. So long as they comply with the requirements for an EGM eg invite motions from other owners, create agenda and send to all owners, compile the minutes after the EGM and the result of the voting, etc.

                          Once EGM is over and Sec have complied the minutes and sent to all owners, send copy to SM telling them to comply with motions that affect them.

                          Remember the SM is an employee of the strata and only has the powers that you give them.

                           

                          #18681
                          chak
                          Flatchatter
                          Chat-starter

                            Thanks gents. We finally got our EGM but not without dramas from the Strata Mgt. Now I have another ‘hurdle’ for the EGM and need some help so that we do it right under the Act.

                            1. We do not officially have an EC since they are not elected by the OC but self-elected, can we nominate someone at the meeting to be the Chairperson for the night of the EGM?
                            2. As stated in 1., we do not have an EC, so we do not have a secretary, who do we give the proxies before the meeting? Are we allow to hand the proxies to the nominated and OC elected Chairperson at the meeting, immediately after the Chairperson is elected?

                            3. One of the EGM motions is to resolve to vote an entry on the minutes for the last meeting, AGM, as an invalid entry, thereby the minutes was not a true copy and account of the meeting. Once we voted to resolve as an invalid entry, do we vote that the remainder of the minutes as true and correct account? How do we go about doing this? I am sorry for the confusion.

                            Thanks

                            #18682
                            Whale
                            Flatchatter

                              In the circumstances you describe it is permissible for the persons personally present and entitled to vote at a General Meeting to, in the absence of the Chairman and Secretary, elect one of their number to act in those roles.

                              Here’s your reference in the NSW Strata Schemes Management Act (1996):

                              Sch2, Cl:15 (2) In the chairperson’s absence from any such meeting, the persons present at that meeting and entitled to vote on motions submitted at that meeting may elect one of their number to preside at that meeting and the person so elected is, while so presiding, taken to be the chairperson of the owners corporation.

                              Once elected the A/Chairman should ask for all proxies to be received, and then announce the names of all persons who are entitled to vote, and only then call the General Meeting to order, and bring the Motion to elect the Executive Committee (E/C) forward so that it’s resolved first.

                              Once that Motion is resolved, with the A/Chairman abstaining, the then elected Members of the E/C should assume their respective roles, including those of Chairman (who may be the same person earlier placed in the acting role) and Secretary.

                              Then the Motion to confirm the Minutes of the previous General Meeting should be considered (again out of Agenda order if necessary), and if it’s resolved that an item has been incorrectly recorded then the amended wording should be recorded in the Minutes of the current General Meeting, together with a statement that the remainder of the previous Meeting Minutes were confirmed (as accurate). 

                              #18698
                              chak
                              Flatchatter
                              Chat-starter

                                Thanks Whale. I have worked out the order for the meeting according to your advice.

                                One more question, as explained in previous posts the situation regarding our EC, our SM insist that we still need to have a motion to dissolve the current EC and he put this in our motion:

                                “That the meeting SPECIALLY RESOLVES to determine pursuant to clause 4(1) (e) of Schedule 3 to the SSMA 1996 that the office of each member of the Executive Committee is vacated.”

                                Does it mean we need to dissolve the EC first as in the motion or can we, working to the Act, go straight into nominating and electing EC members?

                                 

                                #18699
                                Jimmy-T
                                Keymaster

                                  You have to declare the EC seats vacant so that you can then fill them again with a new election.
                                  You will need no more than 25 percent of owners voting at the meeting to vot against this for it to pass.

                                  The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                                  #18700
                                  kiwipaul
                                  Flatchatter

                                    Strictly speaking as regards Chak 13 post if they weren’t elected by the OC they are not the committee and so their is no need to vote them out of office.

                                    But if you have the numbers humor the SM just to get the EGM called and then you have a valid reason if things go pear shaped to contest the decision (to remove the current EC).

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