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  • #8551

    Hi All,

    Im wondering if anyone else has come across this.

    Our building has experienced something very suspicous 2 weeks prior to our annual fire inspection.

    2 weeks prior to the inspection, all our fire extinguishers had disappeared. Another owner in the building told me that someone in fire jumpsuit/uniform took the extinguishers and told him it needed to be inspected and refilled……They never came back.

    When the time came for inspection, the inspectors pointed out that there were no extinguishers and that both fire hoses in the underground parking area were a couple of metres short of regulation (we’ve never had this issue before).
    Upon closer inspection by the building manager, it seems as though the hoses were cut with the nozzle placed back on.

    The inspectors have given us a quote to replace all the items and demand it be done in order for the building to be certified.

    Could this be just mere coincidence? Has anyone else come across anything similar?

Viewing 10 replies - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)
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  • #17165
    Cosmo
    Flatchatter

      Our units don’t have special fire requirements so NO I have never come across what you outline but in my view it is a straight out case of theft (taking the fire extinguishers) and damage (cutting the hoses).

       

      The one exception is if the ‘theft’ and ‘damage’ was authorized but the OC and or the Strata Manager. If either or both bodies authorised this they need to explain themselves!

      #17168
      FlatChatFan
      Flatchatter

        Steelpaper

        Sounds like the ‘broken window’ scam.  A shop owner with large plate glass windows finds the windows smashed and a company that replaces windows is on their doorstep giving quotes to replace them.

        I think the theft of the fire extinguishers and hose should be reported to the police as it may be happening in other buildings and businesses. 

        When the new ones are installed I would suggest checking for any registration or identifying number on each, and the Secretary keep that information for each extinguisher.  They usually have a metal tag with the last inspection date on them but that can be removed.

        If there is no registration number, maybe paint part of each extinguisher with some identifying information (without covering the safety information), and engrave the full address of your building on the metal part of the new hoses.

        It might be a good time to investigate better security for your building, including CCTV?

        #17170
        Anonymous

          Having been investigating the ins, outs, whys and wherefores of strata living for a few months now, it is my contention that the fire inspection / fire rating system PLUS the Occupational Health & Safety compliance system in strata is being scammed and rorted by contractors and strata managers. The term I heard recently: gold-plating, over-specifying, unmentioned kick-backs and commissions are all rampant. As well as the more blatant example already mentioned. Something needs to be done.

          #17171
          Cosmo
          Flatchatter

            Steelpaper, In cases of criminal behaviour my experience is that you have to look at whose self interest is served by the missing extinguishers.  In my view in your case it has to be either one of two bodies, either the company who subsequently tendered for the replacements or the EC by a ‘cosy’ (think Labor Party power brokers and headkickers*) arrangement.

            [*Cosmo named names here but, since he hasn’t deposited $1m in the Flat Chat Defamation Defence Fund, I have edited it out]

            #17172
            Whale
            Flatchatter

              Let’s not all jump to conclusions.

              Re Post #1 – I recall that fire extinguishers have to be pressure tested every five years, and as that means taking them away to be evacuated and tested it’s quite possible that it was indeed a representative of your Plan’s contractors who was seen to do that, and as all the extinguishers could have been originally supplied/installed at the same time, it’s conceivable that all were taken off-site.

              I just found the pdf of the Invoice in the amount of $1,227.60 for replacing six or our Plan’s nine fire extinguishers in 2008, and I’d made a notation on it to the effect that it was cheaper to replace those than to have them pressure tested; sorry but I didn’t note how much cheaper.

              Has anyone asked your Plan’s contractors if their Rep. removed the old fire extinguishers, and why they’re quoting to replace those as opposed to testing, refilling, and re-certifying the old ones? They may be doing you a favour, but in any case your Owners Corporation doesn’t have to purchase the new extinguishers from its inspecting/testing contractor; shop around!

              Can’t explain the shortened hoses on the Reels, unless of course someone wants to (deeply) inhale the wacky stuff from a mega-hose Wink.

              Re Post #4 – As for the implications of the (NSW) Workplace Health and Safety Act, audits and associated activities don’t (yet) apply to Strata Plans that are entirely residential, so whilst that doesn’t mean that Executive Committees of such Plans shouldn’t keep an eagle-eye on possible risks on its Common Property, there’s no opportunity for Strata Managers and Contractors to “scam and rort” unless the Owners Corporation allows them to.

               

              PS – Just seached for an earlier invoice. A 4.5kG dry chemical extinguisher cost $218 to remove / pressure test / re-install in 2007 and a new one of the same capacity / type cost $168 in 2008.  Whale 16/11

              #17181
              Anonymous

                Whale, that cost analysis exposes a scam in itself, surely.
                The scammers (contractors and the commissioning strata managers) are taking advantage of executive committees and owners corporations who, in far too many cases, are way too uninvolved and apathetic.
                As a plumber living in our building once famously said with a wide grin: “Body Corporate work? It’s a license to print money!”

                #17182
                Whale
                Flatchatter

                  Blue Swimmer – I don’t see the cost analysis as a scam, but rather symptomatic of the fact that the fire extinguishers are transported, evacuated, pressure tested, re-filled, and returned by people here in Oz who work under Aust. rates of pay and conditions, and the new extinguishers are sourced from overseas locations where the former is much lower and the latter almost non-existent. I know of one Plan that buys new fire extinguishers each year from a large hardware store as that’s cheaper than regular testing/certification and five yearly replacements by a specialist contractor.

                  I agree with you about the (undesirable) consequences of uninvolved and apathetic Owners and poorly trained and often overworked Strata Managers; they’re the main reasons for our Plan self-managing. Sadly the apathy prevails, but just not at the Executive Committee level.  

                  #17216
                  Boronia
                  Flatchatter

                    I find it very irresponsible that a fire service maintenance contractor would remove any (let alone all) of the fire extinguishers from a building for any period of time (let alone two weeks)  to test them.

                     

                    At best they would have an exchange system, simply swapping over an old one for a certified unit, or a loan unit which is left in place until the building’s unit is ready.

                    #17220
                    Austman
                    Flatchatter

                      Essential Services maintenance provider regulation is a area that authorities need to take a serious look at.

                      It’s our OC’s biggest annual maintenance expense.  My advice for any OC is to do an audit yourself.

                      I did this.  It’s complex and it took me a while.  But this some of what I discovered:

                      • It is essentially an unregulated industry.
                      • Service providers need minimal training and mostly no qualifications.
                      • Most maintenance involves simple inspections and log keeping.
                      • Remote fire monitoring (via digital radio) is a near monopoly in Australia – only two companies provide it and they charge the same.
                      • Even the industry admits most standards are over specified, meaning that the maintenance frequency is more often than really needed.
                      • There is zero legal obligation for an OC to employ anyone to do Essential Services maintenance.  The law says the owner must do it but it allows the owner to employ someone.  So If the OC feels competent, it can do the ES maintenance itself.  Of course, by employing a company(s) the OC meets its legal obligation.

                      I found the following for our OC:

                      • For the first 2 years our OC management did nothing.  We had no Essential Services maintenance at all!
                      • The management then noticed and employed an ES auditor (A) to set up our Essential Services maintenance. The EC was not informed.
                      • The ES auditor (A) chose company (B) to do most of the maintenance. But for some reason a third company (C) was also employed to do some of the work that (B) was also doing.
                      • For the next 6 years both (B) and (C) did some of the same work and charged the OC.  Neither the manager,  nor (A), (B) or (C) noticed this – but (B) and (C) must have seen the on-site log books of the other company.
                      • Company (B) on their website states that they will ES auditor (A) work too.  But when approached they said they no longer will do it and referred me back to (A).

                      So there’s no doubt there can be  a ‘cosy’ relationship between OC managers, ES auditors and ES maintenance companies themselves.  But whether this is anything illegal or not is another matter.

                      The EC went and got some quotes from another Essential Services maintenance company – but they turned out to be more expensive than our current providers.

                      In terms of the actual work performed Essential Services maintenance and monitoring is astonishingly poor value.  Most of the work is quick and very simple (just inspections really).  But it does need to be done!  It just should not cost many thousands of dollars per year for almost no actual work.

                      #17224
                      Austman
                      Flatchatter

                        Just to add, in our OC, the Essential Services we maintain includes:

                        Fire sprinklers, Remote Monitoring, Smoke Detectors, Fire Extinguishers, Fire Hoses, Fire Hydrants, Fire Alarm system, Fire Doors, Exit Lighting, Exit Doors, Exit Pathways, Emergency Lighting.  And more.

                        It’s quite a long list, but most of it is simple to test and maintain.  Most modern buildings would have similar maintenance obligations today.  Even smallish OCs like ours (12 lots).

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