Flat Chat Strata Forum Living in strata Current Page

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  • #11083
    Jimmy-T
    Keymaster

      As much as we are appalled at the thought of brand new apartments lying empty for years, the proposal to tax ‘ghost’ investments – first touted by Labor then slotted into this week’s budget – has a whiff of dog whistle mixed with wishful thinking about it.

      Do ghost units really exist? Two stories spring to mind.  Recently an estate agent told me he had been instructed to put a unit that had been bought off the plan on the market five years after the building had been completed.

      It was only when he went to appraise the unit that he realised that no one had set foot in it since the day it was finished.

      Then there was the time I remarked to a neighbour how good the sound insulation in our building was as I had never heard the people on the other side of the wall in the six or seven years that I had lived in my flat.

      “There’s no one there, mate,” he said.  “It’s empty … never been lived in.”

      So we know these properties exist.  In fact, according to this story from March last year, there are about 90,000 homes standing empty in Sydney at any given time, and 80-odd thousand in Melbourne.

      More than that, there is a direct correlation between lower rental yields and rates of non-occupancy. If the rental yield drops below 2 per cent, the chances of homes not being occupied more than doubles.

      Whatever the reason,  some people would rather let a home lie empty and grow in value than rent it to literally ‘low rent’ tenants.

      So what is my problem with the ghost home tax plans to fine investors $5000 for leaving residential properties empty? Surely it is better to have empty homes occupied than watch rents rocket because of a shortage of affordable housing.  That is a no-brainer.

      The question is, how do we differentiate between the homes that have been deliberately left empty for tax and investment reasons and those that are unoccupied for long periods for all the other reasons that might pertain?

      For instance, what about the retirees who want to lock-up and leave their apartments while they go on their Bucket List world tour, but want everything to be the same when they come back in three or six months?

      Then there are the people who winter in Queensland but spend their summers down here where the temperatures are less brutal.

      And what about the weekender cottages that stay empty during the winter months or between school holidays?

      Now, my inner Socialist is screaming “all property is theft” and telling me that anyone who owns more than one home deserves everything that’s coming to them.

      The same goes for the empty nesters who leave the nest empty while they eat their way around the world on cruise ships.

      But really, these people are not contributing to the housing shortage because their homes were never going to be available for rent anyway.

      And then we get to the deliberate ghost home investors.  How do we tell that the empty flat that has been left unoccupied deliberately from one that is empty because of lifestyle reasons?

      By the way, according to the story cited above, the empty home is twice as likely to be a house than an apartment.

      Water usage, or the lack thereof, is often used to identify empty properties but that can’t filter out the incidental empties from the deliberately de-populated properties.

      And, by the way, this is where we come to the dog whistle element of this policy.  Anecdotally, many of these empty flats are owned by rich Asians who want to get their money out of their homelands but don’t want anyone else living in their flat before they or their expensively educated offspring can move in.

      Is it true and how prevalent is it? In the absence of hard facts and figures, the bigots will build their case.

      So good luck, Mr Morrison.  If you can find a way of punishing the greedy and helping the needy, go for your life. I just think it might be a lot less simple than it sounds.

      How would you sort the deliberately empty from the merely mostly unoccupied? Or don’t you think there’s any difference? Head for the Forum or write to mail@flatchat.com.au.

      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
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    • #27048
      Mailbox
      Flatchatter
        I live in a block of 74 apartments on Sydney’s north Shore. One apartment (the best) was bought by an elderly couple, wife didn’t like it so never lived there and then she died and husband retired to a nursing home. So it remains empty as it has for more than ten years.

        The couple are childless.

        We also have three Chinese owner in nice apartments who we see for a couple of weeks (at most) per year.
        #27050
        Lady Penelope
        Strataguru

          The ‘ghost tax’ only applies to foreign nonresident owners. This type of ‘ghost tax’  is also used in Vancouver.

          The ‘ghost tax’ doesn’t apply to Australians who leave their properties empty.

          Foreign nonresidents can be easily identified by the ATO. This is because foreign nonresidents need to apply for foreign investment approval before purchasing any residential property in Australia. Foreign nonresidents already pay fees of $5000-$90,000 per property depending on its value. The ‘ghost tax’ will be an additional tax.

          Water usage is just one method of assessing whether a property is vacant. However, any savvy owner could easily ask (or employ) another person to turn on a few taps in their apartment every so often to make the place appear to be lived in.

          As a result I don’t think the ghost tax will achieve its desired aims of releasing more nonresident foreign owned rental properties into the rental pool. 

          #27052
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster
          Chat-starter

            I just chanced upon this Airbnb service site called and chill

            “Avoid paying Australian Ghost Tax” screams the headline.  “Earn money from your investment and chill … We transform your empty property into a five-star Airbnb.”

             

            It’s taken them about 24 hours to offer a way round the law that’s supposed to ease the housing shortage.

             

            Amazing …
            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
            #27053
            Lady Penelope
            Strataguru

              Jimmy T –  This type of commercial outfit would not be permitted in many locations, I would imagine. This is quite a bit different from an ordinary ‘mum and dad’ operator letting out their holiday apartment for a few months of every year!

              The management fees would no doubt be enormous! They even get designers in to select the furniture! They also seem overly bossy and restrictive too e.g. the owner is only permitted to reside there for 6 weeks! 

              #27057
              Jimmy-T
              Keymaster
              Chat-starter

                Do you think it might be a spoof?  But there is a version of their website in Chinese and it pretty much translates the same.

                The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                #27058
                tharra
                Flatchatter
                  #27061
                  Millie
                  Flatchatter

                    Please catch up.  There are literally hundreds of these property managing agents for Airbnb and all the other platforms.  Airbnb even has their own property managers; they call them ‘co-hosts’.  Go to their home page…top right, see ‘No Time to Host’, and click.

                    Neighbours Not Strangers have produced a Report for Government, which was current as of Tuesday this week.  

                    The situation is fluid and the penetration into housing is ever increasing.  AccorHotels wants “to punish” Airbnb for taking their hotel business away from them so Accor Hotels has bought the web platform “OneFineStay”.  Airbnb is now renting homes as business ‘chill out’ rooms or ‘meeting spaces’, to compete with all the other web platforms offering minimum 30-minute bookings in homes.

                    Residential Housing is no longer for housing Residents….unless our Government and Local Councils start enforcing some legislation.

                    #27079
                    Ongoing
                    Flatchatter

                      I think you may find that it is easy for the Government to determine whether a unit is occupied or not, thanks to Geographic Information Systems and data matching. There is a huge quantity of data that can be associated with geographic locations just from Government registrations alone.

                      #27080
                      Jimmy-T
                      Keymaster
                      Chat-starter

                        @Neale said:
                        I think you may find that it is easy for the Government to determine whether a unit is occupied or not, thanks to Geographic Information Systems and data matching. There is a huge quantity of data that can be associated with geographic locations just from Government registrations alone.  

                        That’s true but given the lack of information and enforcement at the very base level, there is a gap between what’s possible and what’s practicable.  

                        For instance, allegedly, the majority of even bona fide tenants are not registered with their owners corporations, meanwhile local councils are running an effective moratorium on winkling out illegal holiday lets.  

                        I think it requires a lot of effort AND will to identify and penalise the miscreants … and that could well be beyond whatever body is tasked with doing it. 

                        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                        #27096
                        PCW

                          I bought an off the plan apartment in Chatswood once but decided not to occupy it when completed but to rent it. Rental was not enough so I left it empty to keep it new while I tried to sell it in its new smelling state. This worked well and I got a good price on sale. Another reason for empty homes or units.

                          Another fad of mine is that government should look to property as a source of revenue to supplement the reliance on wages tax.

                          Figures show a greater growth in property values than wages growth so this would give government a greater growth in revenue and also help to dampen the growth of property values thus assisting first home buyers and deterring investors who get enough encouragement via negative gearing and CGT incentives.

                          Skilled investors can weave between state land tax threshold and non cash deductions to ensure no tax is paid but a Federal land tax on excess property would mean they contribute to costs such as defense, law and order on a user pay basis.

                          I commended this to ScoMo to help balance his budget but it will be out voted by members with undisclosed interests in multiple properties or similar party supporters who do not have the best interests of the country at heart. 

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