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  • #9403

    We have replaced the door closer on the front door of a unit as required as this is common property. I have asked the strata management company to bill the owner and they have said he is not liable.

    If an owner removes common property, surely he/she is liable for replacement.

    Am I missing something?

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  • #21169
    Whale
    Flatchatter

      Based on some recent posts by others, I’m guessing that the Owner concerned may have removed the door closer because of the noise then made by those doors when they slammed shut. I only mention that because most closers are adjustable, and your Owners Corporation (O/C) may want to have them adjusted to get the best balance between proper door closure and any resultant noise.

      Anyway back to your question, provided your O/C knows conclusively which Owner removed the original door closer, then YES it can invoice them for the costs of its replacement.

      The best way to do that and to maximise the chances of a prompt payment is to:

      1) Advise the Owner in writing of the O/C’s intention to invoice them for the costs, why, and that such unauthorised changes to the Common Property are illegal under Sect 65A of the NSW Strata Schemes Management Act (1996); and depending upon any response received (such as denial),

      2) Include the amount as a separate line item on that Owner’s next invoice for their Levy Contributions, as in that way at least the cost will remain as a “debt against the lot” if and until it’s paid in full.

      By the way, the Strata Manager is employed by the O/C and whilst any advice that they may give should be given proper consideration, at the end of the day they must act lawfully and in accordance with the O/C’s instructions.

      #21170

      Thanks for the reply Whale.

      The closer in question is in inside the the unit so it can only be the owner or tenant. The owners agent requested the closer to be repaired in the original email. The handyman invoice stated that there was no closer when he inspected the door and had to purchase a new one.

      This is compounded by the owner having recently purchased the unit. Previous owner/tenant could have removed the closer.

      I have instructed our strata managers to bill the owner anyway.

      I am puzzled that the strata managers are reluctant to bill when I believe it is a simple case of the owner removing something and expecting levies to pay for it.

      #21172
      excathedra
      Flatchatter

        A missing or disabled closer would presumably cause the building to fail its fire safety inspection — an unacceptable circumstance.  You should not be telling the managing agent this; any managing agent worth his or her salt should be telling the Executive that it has to be fixed at the owner’s expense.  If the owner then has to take it out of a tenant’s bond, so be it!

        #21174
        Jimmy-T
        Keymaster

          @Rhodie said:
          This is compounded by the owner having recently purchased the unit. Previous owner/tenant could have removed the closer.

          If the closer was removed by the previous owner or one of the previous owner’s tenants then the current owner can’t be held liable for its replacement.  Unless you can prove it was the current owner who removed it, the liability falls back on the Owners Corp (as it should, for failure to inspect and maintain common property fire safety installations).

          The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
          #21176
          Whale
          Flatchatter

            …and of course despite mandatory Condition Reports (tenancy) and pre-purchase inspections commissioned and/or personally made by the purchaser, none of the Owners or any of the Agents involved in the rental/s and in the sale process noticed that the door closer was missing; really?

            Or is just a case of none of those worrying about it on the basis that a simple e-mail from the Rental Agent (who’s supposed to be a Property Manager) would see the O/C pick-up the tab!

            I agree that due to the complications and possibly the cost it’s not worth pursuing, but it’s an example of what too often happens when Property Managers, some of whom really do precious little for their fee, are able to provide some justification by shifting the costs of Owner/Landlords’ maintenance to O/Cs via compliant Strata Managers. 

            #21177
            Kangaroo
            Flatchatter

              @JimmyT said:

              Unless you can prove it was the current owner who removed it, the liability falls back on the Owners Corp (as it should, for failure to inspect and maintain common property fire safety installations).

              I use the Sherlock Holmes level of “proof”. The door closer is inside the unit. Therefore it was the current owner, a previous owner, the current tenant or a previous tenant who broke or removed the door closer.

              It may be (is) the OC’s legal responsibility to get it replaced, but it’s the current owner’s responsibility to pay for it. If he/she can get it back from a tenant, then that’s up to them.

              I’m still not sure where this concept of “Caveat OC” rather than “Caveat Emptor” came from. The OC is not a party to the contract of sale for a unit changing hands, so why should damaged common property inside a unit suddenly change status upon sale? The answer is it doesn’t.

              #21178
              DaveB
              Flatchatter

                If this was a tenanted unit, then I agree with Whale that an outgoing condition report by the letting agent should have picked up the missing door closer, and the tenant should have been charged for it.  Although owners may squeal and protest when getting a bill for damage to or missing common property, they are the ones who engage letting agents, not the owners corporation.  If they employ duds, then it’s up to them to fight it out with their agents, and if necessary sack them and get a better one. Astute landlords also take out landlord insurance to cover them for damage to the building.

                Interference with fire doors and their closers could result in a life threatening situation for other residents of the building in the event of a fire breaking out within one unit.  If such a door is left open flames and smoke could penetrate into the stairwell, making evacuation difficult or impossible. 

                It probably should be mandatory for fire doors to be labelled that these are part of the building’s fire safety protection, and should not be removed or modified.

                 

                #21179
                Jimmy-T
                Keymaster

                  @Kangaroo said:
                  It may be (is) the OC’s legal responsibility to get it replaced, but it’s the current owner’s responsibility to pay for it. If he/she can get it back from a tenant, then that’s up to them.

                  Sorry, Roo, but you are wrong, regardless of how stupid you think it is. Common property is the responsibility of the Owners Corp.  The owners corp has allowed a situation to develop where common property have been removed and they have done nothing about it.  

                  How could they have known?  Well, regular fire safety checks would have picked it up but even so, ignorance of what is happening in their building is no excuse.  That’s why every time a unit in a building is put up for sale or rent, it’s well worth someone from the EC having a sticky beak to make sure all is hunky dory.

                  By the way, this principle came to my attention in a case where an owner had replaced the sliding doors on his balcony with fancy folding timber ones – something that could only have been spotted by someone taking a boat out to sea at Bondi Beach and training high-powered binoculars on the building. Nevertheless, years after the unit was sold and the doors (inevitably) failed, the new owner was able to argue successfully that the new doors were still OC responsibility and they had to pay for the much more expensive repairs.

                  And where did the principle of “Caveat OC” come from? The same place that says you can’t blame a new owner for a problem caused by a previous one. The buck has to stop somewhere and that place is the OC.  If the OC can’t be bothered to check on their own property, they they can’t complain when it goes walkies.

                  The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                  #21180
                  excathedra
                  Flatchatter

                    My SP (NSW) has the following as a special by-law, and we are surely not unique in this respect:

                     

                    “SPECIAL BY-LAW 1 Essential Fire Equipment – Fire Doors”

                    1. This by-law applies to all lot owners.

                    2. Each lot owner has the right to replace and/or install the following:

                    (a) fire doors;

                    (b) locks on the fire doors, and

                    (c) door closers

                    3. The lot owner acknowledges that if the fire door, lock on the fire door or door closer does not comply with the fire safety requirements THEN the Owners Corporation may take steps to remedy that failure or non-compliance and in doing so the Owners Corporation had the right to:

                    (a) carry out all work necessary to perform that obligation;

                    (b) enter upon any part of the parcel to carry out that work, and

                    (c) recover the costs of carrying out that work from the owner as a debt …”

                    We have occasionally had to invoke it when unauthorised alterations have led to delays in the issue of the fire safety certificate required by the local council.

                    #21233

                    Thanks for all the replies. Obviously not conclusive but I am still of the opinion that it is the OC responsibility, but the owner has the obligation to pay for wilful removal. Sure you can do fire safety checks but the owner could remove the closer straight afterwards.

                     

                    But from now on I will try to have a sticky beak when units are on show.

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