Flat Chat Strata Forum Strata Committees Current Page

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #7496
    Billen Ben
    Flatchatter

      The “fun and games” never stop in my SP.
      Our AGM is coming up. Our mailing system has two levels. One level is sending things in the post and it applies to about half the OC owners mail.
      The other level involves a communal mail box. The communal mail box is a box with 20 or so pigeon holes that are alphabetised. The mail from the OC’s mailbox at the front of the SP, that includes owners mail, is taken from the front box to the pigeon hole box and stuck in that box; anyone can do this it is completely open to anyone.

      Sometimes to save a few bucks the EC cut out the middle man (Aus Post) and just put things straight into the pigeon holes because the owners use the street address of the SP.

      There is no security and no privacy. Mail theft has been an ongoing issue for 20 years or more.

      I do not know if the EC cut out the middle man in this instance but half the AGM notices end up in the pigeon hole mail box regardless of whether the EC put them there or the post saw them end up there.

      Apparently some bright spark has decided to relocate all the AGM notices in the pigeon box to the near by creek.

      The OC has fulfilled its obligation to give notice of the meeting but given half the owners will not get their notice it creates an interesting situation.

      There are some interesting issues here:
      does the OC have an obligation to reissue the notices? (if reissued they will not have a clear 7 days)
      given the pigeon holes are shared by anyone with a last name starting with the same letter can anyone really say it was removed from “my mailbox”?
      what is the OC obligation to providing a secure and private mail delivery destination (mailbox for every unit)?
      In a large SP it means about 40 or 50 people will not get their notices; where does such a theft leave the outcome of an AGM when such an unusual event occurs?

    Viewing 2 replies - 1 through 2 (of 2 total)
    • Author
      Replies
    • #13217
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        Billen Ben said:

        There are some interesting issues here:
        does the OC have an obligation to reissue the notices? (if reissued they will not have a clear 7 days)

        The EC has an obligation under the Act to “serve” notice of a meeting.  I would think that presumes a reliable means of delivery like post or email especially when there is a history of mail theft and vandalism. The difference between leaving notices in pigeon holes and sending material by post is that interfering with the Australia Post mail is (I think) a criminal offence and therefor more reliable.

        You could argue that the EC has not only failed to serve all the notices to everyone entitled to get them but they will doubtless say that they have done their best and will deal with the consequences later (see below). But, seriously, this is a far from ideal situation when you have minutes of previous meetings, agendas and financial reports floating around (literally) – that's assuming the EC is fulfilling their legal obligation to provide these for the AGM.

        given the pigeon holes are shared by anyone with a last name starting with the same letter can anyone really say it was removed from “my mailbox”?

        People can say what they like but really, all they can honestly claim is that they never got the notice – whether it was ever there or not is another matter.  However, since there is a history of theft and there's evidence of vandalism, claims that the mail was taken from their box would have to be taken seriously.

        what is the OC obligation to providing a secure and private mail delivery destination (mailbox for every unit)?

        As far as I know the only legal obligation is to provide a mailbox for the Owners Corporation (presumably so that notices can be “served” on it).  Surely this is an issue for the owners to discuss at their AGM and then decide whether or not to pay for secure mailboxes to be installed.  If they chose not to do so, then they have to work out a reliable means of delivering notices and agendas.  Even if the majority say they are happy with the present arrangement, that clearly is not good enough.

        In a large SP it means about 40 or 50 people will not get their notices; where does such a theft leave the outcome of an AGM when such an unusual event occurs?

        Section 154 of the Act is quite specific – if due notice isn't given or someone's voting rights have been denied (for instance, if they didn't even know there was a meeting) decisions that would have been altered had they had a vote are nullified.  But be clear, that 's only decisions on which their vote would have made a difference – not decisions where there was an overwhelming majority.  And it doesn't nullify the meeting as a whole.  This is what the Act says:

         

        154   Order where voting rights denied or due notice of item of business not given

        (1)  An Adjudicator may order that a resolution passed at a general meeting of an owners corporation be treated as a nullity on and from the date of the order if satisfied that the resolution would not have been passed but for the fact that the applicant for the order:

        (a)  was improperly denied a vote on the motion for the resolution, or

        (b)  was not given due notice of the item of business in relation to which the resolution was passed.

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #13218
        Billen Ben
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          Thanks for the comments Jimmy.

          I am not sure if the EC actually mailed the agendas or just went and stuck them in the communal box with the pigeon holes (as they have with other notices) but your comments on the difference are most noteworthy. The first set of EC minutes will show the cost of the mail out and that will reveal if it was mailed or not.

          Tampering with the mail is a criminal matter and someone is claiming to have reported it to police.

          I would agree that if the AGM notices were never mailed, just pigeon holed, then there is arguably no crime.

          I would agree the only obligation with mailboxes is that found in s114 of the SSMA and that relates to the OC’s mailbox only; not the owners. I would agree the AGM needs to address the matter of individuals mail.

          I have talked to the local post mistress and explained the big green box at the front of the SP is the OC’s mailbox, not the individual owners. Owners mail should not be getting put in it.
          There are even 4 owners who have their own mailbox at the entrance.

          There have been several motions at previous AGMs to purchase a bank of boxes but all have failed as the prime objective of a low levy always overrides such motions. As much as i find the relocation of the “mail” a poor act it does bring to the fore the long standing problem of mail security. This year the mailbox motion may pass.

          It isn’t only general information “floating” around as the AGM notice also contained 2 CTTT applications with a closing date for submissions of the 12th of July and the latest levy notice for the particular unit. There is a lot of information in the notices and that anybody could just walk off with 40 or 50 copies isn’t good enough from the self-management.

          It really is a poor situation and many owners have PO boxes because of the long history of mail tampering. This doesn’t help when it comes to voting for a motion to purchase a 100+ box system. These people will not vote for mailboxes when they already have a secure system.

        Viewing 2 replies - 1 through 2 (of 2 total)
        • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

        Flat Chat Strata Forum Strata Committees Current Page