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  • #7409
    Jimmy-T
    Keymaster

      I can hardly criticise anyone for having a pop at the CTTT but how about a few simple ideas for fixing it.

      Let me get the ball rolling by suggesting that they stop “interpreting” the law and just ask the simple question, “were the by-laws breached?”

      And let's create a “move on or move out” ruling – if someone has more than, say, three goes at their Owners Corporation, they can't come back to the CTTT for a year.  If life in their building is so bad, they should move out.

      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
    Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)
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    • #13173
      Billen Ben
      Flatchatter

        JimmyT said:

        And let's create a “move on or move out” ruling – if someone has more than, say, three goes at their Owners Corporation, they can't come back to the CTTT for a year.  If life in their building is so bad, they should move out.

        Move where; to another bad building, and another and another until one finds a decent one that could then degrade to become a bad one because three spins of the chocolate wheel means it is time to move out.  I do not think a three strikes clause is a good idea.

        Remove the so called “Super Tribunal” from the equation.

        CTTT dealt with just over 1450 applications in 2009/10. There are roughly 260 working days in a year. That is 5.5 cases per working day.

        Strata is only 2.5% of the CTTT cases load and so there is no real incentive for professional development in that particular area. It is not cost effective.

        Detach strata from the general day to day cases of CTTT and make it a specialist arm of CTTT instead of something Members deal with outside of their ordinary day of Tenancy and Retail matters.

        IF a Strata specific arm was set up;

        • using just 2% of the CTTT annual budget (based on the 2009/10 CTTT report) and
        • a $10 government levy, per unit, for SP’s over 50 units – payable to the new strata specific arm by each OC after each AGM – required by new legislation.

        THEN a strata specific body could have all the infrastructure of CTTT but it also has over $1,000,000 per year to be strata specific with.

        For over a million dollars a year can a group of people specialising in strata deal with less than 6 matters a day?

        If a million isn't enough then how much would it cost to have specialists deal with 6 matters a day?

        Legislation should be modified to make decisions set precedents for other matters at that level until an actual court ruling sets a real legal precedent. (End the lottery and make outcomes more predictable)
        Given the repeat nature of many cases by creating a standard it would mean many cases might never occur and some that do would be determined much quicker.Smile

        #13175
        Jimmy-T
        Keymaster
        Chat-starter

          Nice try, BB, but a 'Smiley' doesn't make it positive. However, the idea of a separate entity for strata is pretty sound.

          On my radio spot on 702 last week James Valentine insisted all the stories had to be positive – I was sceptical but we were inundated.

          My 'move out or move on' idea was half joking but there are people out there who get obsessed about slights, real or imagined, and in both cases, the best thing you can do sometimes is either live with it or live somewhere else (and I speak as someone who's been there and done it).

          Right, come on folks, positive suggestions, please!

          The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
          #13191

          Hi Jimmy,

          Just a suggestion, but maybe if some of the legislation was changed so that the process of enforcing the by-laws/act didn’t cost the OC so much would be a good move? Maybe structuring it so that the OC were able to pocket a portion of any fines issued or get an order for costs??

          The people doing things right shouldn’t be burdened with the costs of those that want to spoil it!

          Also, maybe, just maybe the OFT could provide information events for strata owners/purchaser’s? a lot of the issues in strata is that owners don’t understand what they have purchased/own

          #13193
          struggler
          Flatchatter

            Excellent suggestions Mr Strata!  I believe that to improve outcomes from the CTTT we need to look at strata legislation.  Let the OC/EC handle some issues (eg parking).  Let owners make some minor changes without the cost of a special by-law and without the OC being responsible for changes (eg Foxtel satellite dish on roof).

            And there should be definitions of the different types of strata that exist – duplex, townhouse, villa, multi storey complex.  A problem that exists in one complex may require a different ruling in another complex, depending on what type of strata it is. 

            #13201
            bpositive
            Flatchatter

              1) Impose immediate penalties and Jail terms on EC members and strata managers for fraud, dipping into strata money directly or indirectly. (that will scare the shit out of most of these corrupt semi-retired pensioners)

              2) Impose a $10,000 fine for breach of bylaws (no exceptions)

              3) Streamline the law so it is easy to understand and follow.

              #13204
              Anonymous

                I concur with bpositive's brilliant suggestions!

                I add that the 'strata police' concept suggested in this forum a little while ago sould become a reality as well to look after bpositive's innovations.

                #13219
                Billen Ben
                Flatchatter

                  The  urbanspaceman and bpositive offer a “hardcore” solution.
                  We have about 10km of internal roads with a 20km speed limit. Everybody breaks the 20km/h by-law. Imagine the revenue someone would gain with 100 people breaking that by-law everyday,

                  Impose a $10,000 fine for breach of bylaws (no exceptions) – that is a million a day.

                  Hardcore!

                  I fully support the strata police concept.

                  #13220
                  Jimmy-T
                  Keymaster
                  Chat-starter

                    Mr Strata said:

                    Just a suggestion, but maybe if some of the legislation was changed so that the process of enforcing the by-laws/act didn't cost the OC so much would be a good move? Maybe structuring it so that the OC were able to pocket a portion of any fines issued or get an order for costs??

                    The people doing things right shouldn't be burdened with the costs of those that want to spoil it!

                    Also, maybe, just maybe the OFT could provide information events for strata owners/purchaser's? a lot of the issues in strata is that owners don't understand what they have purchased/own

                    A couple of excellent suggestions there – but how do you apportion costs to a body that's supposed to be (and I use that phrase advisedly) a low-cost option? 

                    How about this – every strata owner gets a CTTT voucher which they can only use once in their ownership within a specific strata block.  Once you've taken the OC or another owner to the CTTT once, that's it.  If you want to run another case, you have to persuade another owner to let you use their “voucher” or face the prospect of paying both sides' costs if you lose. That way you could clear the tribunal of the persistent pests and hobby litigators while giving a people a chance to air genuine grievances.  Nuts?  Of course it is … but then this is strata.

                    The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                    #13233

                    Consistency in the decision making process is important. 

                    In QLD, QCAT publishes all its decisions which forces a consistent approach from the tribunal in making its decisions.

                    In the CTTT, there is no guarantee of a win because another similar case was decided in a certain manner. This is problematic and should be addressed.  

                     

                    Simone Balsara

                    Lawyer

                     

                    TEYS Lawyers, The Strata Law Experts
                    02 9562 6500 – 1300 TEYSLAWYERS
                    Suite 73, Lower Deck, Jones Bay Wharf
                    26-32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009

                    #13242
                    struggler
                    Flatchatter

                      So how do we address the inconsistences here in NSW?  More and more strata will be built in the future here in Sydney.  And with the first of the baby boomers retiring this year, there will be more and more people downsizing to strata (in the belief that they will never have to do or pay for anything again).  There will be more problems with/in strata complexes due to sheer numbers and no consistency.

                      #13250
                      Will-NSW
                      Flatchatter

                        Speeding is enforced by the cops, not by me making a complaint, going to mediation, adjudication and then applying for orders.

                        Currently to get a party to abide by the law, you are forced to go to the CTTT and start a process that is adversarial, lengthy and stressful.

                        Much confrontation could be removed if a specialist strata department could advise on the law to the parties as it relates to an issue. This should solve most conficts.

                        I understand this is, in part, how the system used to work in the 'olden days'.

                        I'd be more than happy to pay a $50 levy per annum for a great, professional public service with a raison d'etre being to prevent conflict and fine recalcitrant parties.

                        #13251
                        Billen Ben
                        Flatchatter

                          How far into the future are we still going to be seeking these changes?
                          If the past is any guide then the answer is a long time, too long.

                          #13258
                          struggler
                          Flatchatter

                            If my information is correct, the last update of model by-laws was 1997 and the Strata Schemes Act is dated 1996.  So it has been a long time without reviews or updates already.

                            Building Codes are updated yearly and Australian Standards every 3 years I believe.  The legislation for strata affects alot of people already and will affect alot more in the future.  The way we all live has changed since the late 90's.  So its about time for something to be done.

                            #13259
                            Jimmy-T
                            Keymaster
                            Chat-starter

                              The Act as a whole has to be rewritten, I agree.  But it has been updated a few times since 1996, the most recent changes seeing amendment of the laundry and flooring by-laws (last year)  and before that were laws forbidding the demand of proxies by developers in sales contracts and a few other odds and ends.  It's getting a bit like an old building that needs to be demolished rather than renovated yet again. 

                              I would think, in the meantime, making it obligatory for Owners Corporations to enforce their by-laws would be a major step in the right direction.

                              The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                              #13263
                              Will-NSW
                              Flatchatter

                                JimmyT said:

                                I would think, in the meantime, making it obligatory for Owners Corporations to enforce their by-laws would be a major step in the right direction..

                                Great idea Jimmy T. Say the legislation was amended to do this – what are you're thoughts on forcing compliance on an OC not enforcing its own by-laws?

                              Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)
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