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  • #11538
    peaceandquiet
    Flatchatter

      We have just sold our house to escape Neighbours From Hell and moved into a strata apartment.

      Tonight (a Thursday) a neighbour is having a gathering in their courtyard and their shouting is all through our completely closed up apartment. Can’t even be drowned out by white noise at top volume. It isn’t the first time and my heart is sinking.

      It started around 7:30pm and may be winding down now (about 10:30pm). So it isn’t awfully late but we have a young son who is being kept awake and frankly we just want to do our own thing in our own apartment. Not be forced to be at their party without even getting a drink!

      What’s the best way to approach this problem? We politely asked our former NFH for some neighbourly consideration because we thought that was the right thing to do. We were rewarded with years of malicious noise and abuse. Should we / can we go straight to strata management with this? How do we ensure our complaint is taken seriously?

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    • #29038
      Austman
      Flatchatter

        All advice states that you should try approaching your neighbour first.

        But if that fails, there are options under the Owners Corporations Act 2006 VIC.

        Check your OC’s registered rules.  But the Owners Corporations Act 2006 VIC Model Rules state:

        • An owner or occupier of a lot, or a guest of an owner or occupier, must not unreasonably create any noise likely to interfere with the peaceful enjoyment of any other person entitled to use the common property.  
        • An owner or occupier of a lot must take all reasonable steps to ensure that guests of the owner or occupier do not behave in a manner likely to unreasonably interfere with the peaceful enjoyment of any other person entitled to use the common property.

        Although a “strict” OC might be active in enforcing the OC Act and OC rules, any resident can independently start a three step process to resolve noise issues that can eventually see the matter taken to VCAT and an order obtained:

        https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/housing/owners-corporations/rules-and-resolving-disputes/complaint-handling/process-for-handling-complaints

        It can help if you maintain a log of the noise events and check with other residents to see if they are similarly affected.

        In my experience as an OC chair, noise matters have not gone past the internal dispute resolution step which includes a grievance meeting.  First the OC has issued breach notices.  But when they have been ignored, formally bringing the parties together in a grievance meeting has been reasonably successful.   

        #29071
        peaceandquiet
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          Thanks Austman.

          An update.

          Saturday night was diabolical with competing party noise until 1:20am from two neighbouring apartments’ courtyard and balcony including fighting, screaming and running in the common hallway.

          I made a complaint to OC management and the building manager. I also let our property manager know.

          Yesterday a letter went out to all residents concluding by saying, as a general guideline, to keep noise in our own apartments. It also mentioned a special condition in the OC bylaws that require balconies and courtyards to be used with consideration for other residents.

          Additionally the OC advised a complaint was made to the property managers of the two noisy tenants.

          Our property manager said the OC had taken appropriate action and they would not do anything further at this point.

          Bumped into the building manager in the car park, he said the tenants had apologised and promised the noise would not happen again.

          Now the apartment with the courtyard is at it again *one day* later. It’s a Tuesday night. All we can hear inside our completely closed up apartment is their loud conversation.

          What can we do next?

          #29072
          Lady Penelope
          Strataguru

            peaceandquiet – You may need to adopt a separate NO PARTY by-law, or at least include additional conditions in one of your other by-laws.

            Try to avoid subjective and vague language in your By-law such as “balconies and courtyards are to be used with consideration for other residents”. These types of words are relatively meaningless. 

            Examples of stricter conditions are:

            “XXXXXXXXX has a zero tolerance policy on parties being held in the apartments and common areas between the hours of 9 p.m. and 11 a.m..

            A party being defined as:
            – Any situation where the maximum number of occupants allowed per apartment is exceeded.

            – Any situation where the noise level from the apartment is deemed too high thereby disturbing other occupants.

            – Any situation whereby excessive traffic to/from the apartment is identified.
            – Any situation where it is deemed that intoxication is occurring.
            – Any situation where it is identified that excessive alcohol is present.”

            To address your current dilemma I would request that a By Law infringement Notice be proceeded with against the Tenants as per the procedure outlined in the Act. Tenants can be evicted if they do not abide by the by-laws. A By-law infringement Notice is the first step in achieving this outcome.

            #29073
            peaceandquiet
            Flatchatter
            Chat-starter

              Thanks Lady Penelope.

              If the bylaw you detail were implemented, would this mean it was acceptable to make noise that intrudes into another lot (or cause the other problems listed e g excessive traffic) until 9pm?

              Likewise the model bylaw that mentions music must be kept inside the boundaries of the lot after 12am?

              I wouldn’t have thought it would be okay to make any optional noise that takes away a neighbour’s peaceful enjoyment but this is how these laws seem to read.

              Since the noise problem tonight was finished by 9:45pm (lasting almost three hours), is it likely my complaint will be interpreted as unreasonable by the OC? The context is this is the third time we’ve been disturbed by the same tenant in less than a week; and the noise happened one day after the tenants were notified by the OC that there had been a complaint.

              #29074
              Jimmy-T
              Keymaster

                @peaceandquiet said:

                Now the apartment with the courtyard is at it again *one day* later. It’s a Tuesday night. All we can hear inside our completely closed up apartment is their loud conversation.

                What can we do next?  

                You don’t say what your by-laws (rules) say about noise but I would imagine they include the universal rule that residents can’t make a noise that disturbs other residents’ peaceful enjoyment of their lots. This applies at any time of day and night  and there is no allowance for parties or anything else.

                Start proceedings which, in Victoria, I believe means an internal mediation leading ultimately, if that doesn’t work, to action at VCAT.

                Your strata committee can’t just ignore this. They have to either do something or tell you why they are doing nothing.  

                Have a look HERE and it will tell you how to proceed with this complaint.

                Try to deal with this using your existing rules.  But if the committee and management say this is a persistent problem and “there’s nothing we can do about it” it’s time to look at both tightening up the rules and enforcement of them.

                The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                #29075
                peaceandquiet
                Flatchatter
                Chat-starter

                  Thanks for your comments and the link Jimmy T.

                  I’ve obtained the OC’s ‘Special Rules’ and yes, there’s a universal rule about noise as follows:

                  10.1 A Proprietor or Occupier of a Lot must not:
                  (a) create any undue noise, odours, vibrations or behave in a manner likely to interfere with the peaceful enjoyment of the Proprietor or Occupier of another Lot or of any person lawfully using Common Property

                  The process for obtaining some resolution seems lengthy and laborious, with an uncertain result. For our work and health’s sake we need to be able to rely on peace at home now.

                  On the basis that the above rule is being breached, can we break our lease?

                  #29079
                  Austman
                  Flatchatter


                    @peaceandquiet
                    said:
                    I’ve obtained the OC’s ‘Special Rules’ and yes, there’s a universal rule about noise as follows:

                    10.1 A Proprietor or Occupier of a Lot must not:
                    (a) create any undue noise, odours, vibrations or behave in a manner likely to interfere with the peaceful enjoyment of the Proprietor or Occupier of another Lot or of any person lawfully using Common Property

                    On the basis that the above rule is being breached, can we break our lease?  

                     

                    I doubt it.  “Peaceful enjoyment” in the OC Act doesn’t have the same meaning as “Quiet enjoyment” in the Residential Tenancies Act.  The latter actually refers to landlord interference.

                    And you would have to establish, by a ruling, that the OC’s Special Rule is actually being breached.

                    It might be a bit of a process, but your option is to fill out the Owners Corporation Complaint Form and get it started:

                    https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/housing/owners-corporations/rules-and-resolving-disputes/complaint-handling/internal-dispute-resolution

                    That’s only a few minutes work. Or get your agent/landlord to do it. They might become more keen to help if your only other option is to break lease. The OC must respond to the complaint. Possibly by sending a formal Notice to Rectify Breach to the noise makers.  Possibly by organizing a grievance meeting. Following the required 3 step process.

                    Don’t forget that you can break lease at any time:

                    https://www.tuv.org.au/advice/breaking-your-lease/

                    #29111
                    peaceandquiet
                    Flatchatter
                    Chat-starter

                      Another update.

                      I made two complaints about noise to the Owners Corp. One complaint involved two apartments which held simultaneous parties on a Saturday night (mentioned above). The other was about more party noise from one of the same apartments.

                      The noise in both complaints was loud enough to wake us through double-glazing, the air conditioner running and trains passing.

                      In the process of making the complaints, the OC manager and our property manager instructed me *not* to approach the noisy tenants to try to resolve things in a neighbourly way but to let the OC handle the problem.

                      The OC cut and pasted my complaints into their correspondence with the tenants. The complaints were factual statements of the noise types, dates / times, origins and impact on us. In one complaint I also suggested the noise might be reduced if it were made inside, thinking this might be a way they could keep doing their thing without their noise being intrusive.

                      Initially both tenants acknowledged making noise to the OC and promised to follow the OC rules moving forward.

                      A notice to rectify breach was then issued to the tenant involved in both complaints.

                      Both apartments’ tenants wrote ‘formal responses’ about a week later denying that their noise would bother anyone and disagreeing in their own favour about the times they were making noise. They said they have the right to entertain (they do). They said they were not having parties, just friends over for dinner (Lady Penelope’s party definition would have been useful in the OC rules). They said we should have approached them about their noise in person because they are friendly, reasonable people. One also laid on several insults and threatened legal action against us if we complained again. How friendly and reasonable.

                      I’m surprised a simple matter has received an aggressive response—from two different tenants! Is this normal? Is it also normal to make a polite, factual complaint as part of a standard process; and then the resulting, quite personal hate mail be forwarded to us and all the other stakeholders by the OC?

                      Since both tenants now deny the noise, the OC has requested that we record any further incidents for its use as evidence. We have responded that the OC should check the legality of this request and suggested the tenants who might be recorded may need to know about it.

                      There has been no further unreasonable noise since the second complaint.

                      What now?

                      #29128
                      Jimmy-T
                      Keymaster


                        @peaceandquiet
                        said:
                        I’m surprised a simple matter has received an aggressive response—from two different tenants! Is this normal?

                        Well, there’s a fair chance that they have compared notes but that doesn’t make any difference to the facts of the matter. Evidence of an abusive response can only work in your favour if you ever go to a tribunal.

                        Is it also normal to make a polite, factual complaint as part of a standard process; and then the resulting, quite personal hate mail be forwarded to us and all the other stakeholders by the OC?

                        It’s not normal but it’s not uncommon.  Look at it this way, if they were decent and considerate people you would not be making a complaint in the first place. You should be glad that other residents are seeing their hate mail – it doesn’t cast them in a positive light, does it?

                        Since both tenants now deny the noise, the OC has requested that we record any further incidents for its use as evidence. We have responded that the OC should check the legality of this request and suggested the tenants who might be recorded may need to know about it.

                        This is one of the great furphies of modern living – that you can’t record the noise of a party in case you record a conversation.  Privacy laws relating to recording devices basically say you can’t record someone’s conversation without their knowledge (NB the key word is ‘knowledge’ not ‘permission’).

                        If you tell someone you are going to record their conversation and they say they don’t want you to but keep talking and you are clearly still recording, that’s their problem, not yours.

                        So, if you think you are going to have to take this further, you send them a letter saying that you have been asked to recorded excessive noise in your unit and if they are talking so loudly that they can be recorded in your unit, then they should be aware of that. 

                        There has been no further unreasonable noise since the second complaint.
                        What now?  

                        What do you want?  You have complained, they have vented, but the noise has stopped.  There’s nothing you can do about future noise except to get a noise abatement order at your local court and you are a long way off that.

                        Enjoy the peace and quiet.

                        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
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