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  • #8442

    I am a tenant in a strata building.  Recently, with very short notice, the EC posted signs to state that a new key system would be in place and would issue 2 keys per unit.  With regard to additional keys we had made as spares the EC apparently took a vote NOT to repay any key deposits for the old locks (despite issuing trust receipts for each $50 key).  It’s pretty off behaviour, these guys have probably pocketed a fair amount of money for lost keys anyway and all the interest for those deposits for many years.  Is there anything I can do to force the EC to honour returning the key deposits?

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  • #16687
    FlatChatFan
    Flatchatter

      Have they charged you an additional key deposit on top of what you paid for the other keys?  If so, that does not seem fair.

      I can understand that if there are security problems, and maybe too many of the old keys in use that they would want to change quickly.

      #16691
      kiwipaul
      Flatchatter

        They should supply you with replacement keys on a 1 for one basis so long as all your old keys were supplied by the Strata and you paid for them.

        Or refund you the $50 for any keys you hand in over the 2 they are supplying as replacements.

        #16708

        @FlatChatFan said:
        Have they charged you an additional key deposit on top of what you paid for the other keys?  If so, that does not seem fair.

        I can understand that if there are security problems, and maybe too many of the old keys in use that they would want to change quickly.

        They allocated the flat 2 free keys.  If I wanted any additional keys the rules are $50 for the first key and $150 for any additional (dont get me started on this…) They will not give me ant credit/refund for the 2 additional keys on the original system I had for which I paid $100 to a trust deposit fund.

         

        I have no issue with the speed of their action.  I mentioned this only as I wondered if their were any laws governing their actions..eg do they have to post their intenton visibly for a set amount of time.  Does a security key scheme only get actioned via a by law and therefore refusal to refund deposits constitute a change…etc etc

        #16709

        @kiwipaul said:
        They should supply you with replacement keys on a 1 for one basis so long as all your old keys were supplied by the Strata and you paid for them.

        Or refund you the $50 for any keys you hand in over the 2 they are supplying as replacements.

        Hi KiwiPaul. I completely agree but they wont do either…is there any avenue I can pursue to force them into honouring the key *trust* deposits… The Strata is stating that the owners took a vote on it so that make’s it ok.

        I have sent the EC a letter asking why give a trust receipt if you wont return the money.  I dont think they are going to respond.

        #16711
        scotlandx
        Strataguru

          Why do people have to be so sillly.  Not you sunjoy, the OC.  Yes there is something you can do, well actually two things I think.

          The trust deposit you originally gave them was security in the event of you losing keys.  You haven’t lost any keys.  They decided to replace the keys, so under the terms of your original agreement you are entitled to that deposit back, or to apply the deposit to the new keys.  It doesn’t matter what they may have resolved between themselves, you haven’t agreed to that and you are one party to that trust arrangement, in a trust situation one party can’t change the terms unilaterally.  It is actually quite a serious matter to appropriate trust money, however small the amount might be.

          So I suggest you send them a firmly worded letter stating that you paid that money under a trust arrangement and that they have no grounds to vary the terms of that arrangement, therefore you expect the return of the money forthwith.  If they don’t, you will contact Fair Trading and make an application to the CTTT.

          Another option is for you to contact your landlord and/or the agent.

          #16735

          Thanks Scotlandx for your opinion and advice. 

          I spoke to Fair Trading – the advice from them didn’t seem quite so sound (maybe I am biased as it did not strengthen my positionJ).  They advised me that changing the terms of a key deposit scheme is enacted by amending the by law.  Proposals to amend bylaws needs to be posted on an AGM agenda and then voted in at the AGM.  Once the vote is through the EC then needs to register the change of by law at the land registry. 

          Does this seem like sound advice to you?  It seems to give all EC’s carte blanch to build a feifdom…

          Regardless of the above, I am taking the punt that the EC did not carry out the above steps and will still pursue the matter.

          #16737
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster

            You need the support of 75 percent of all owners voting at a general meeting to change a by-law – it’s really not that easy. ECs can’t enact or change by-laws.

            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
            #16741
            scotlandx
            Strataguru

              In my experience, advice from the Department of Fair Trading can be a bit wonky.  Not that long ago they told me to apply for an order against a builder who had gone bust – I told them that wasn’t going to achieve anything as the company was insolvent, all it would do was cost us money.  So I would take what they tell you with a grain of salt

              Back to this issue – even if the OC had passed a by-law, and I doubt that they have, that by-law could not apply retrospectively.  What I mean by that is that you paid the deposit for the keys under whatever rules applied at that time, and the OC (or the EC) cannot unilaterally change those rules without your consent.  You paid them the money under specific terms, and those terms still apply.

              For example, if someone was given permission to keep a pet, and the OC subsequently put in a by-law banning pets, the new by-law would not apply to that person and that pet, because they were given permission under a by-law that permitted pets.  You cannot apply a new by-law retrospectively.

              Jimmy’s right – it is very difficult to put in a new by-law and I doubt that the OC has done that.  The EC can’t institute rules to suit themselves.  One thing I wonder is where they have put the money, as it is trust money it doesn’t belong to the OC, so if they have moved it to the sinking or admin funds then that is a breach of the trust arrangement.

              Another option would be to lodge a claim with the Small Claims Tribunal for the return of the money, that would probably be the cheapest option for you, refer link below.  I do suggest you contact your landlord though and see what they have to say.

              https://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/lawaccess/ll_lawassist.nsf/pages/lawassist_debt_small_claims_home

              #16763

              Thanks again guys.  I will speak to the landlady/agent.  If they can’t/wont help I will pursue it and let you know the outcome.

              #17468

              Hi – here I am updating with a positive outcome.

              I took your advice and contacted the real estate agent.  She was very pro-active about following this up.  She seemed well up on the legilslation (concurring with what you posted here) and followed up with the strata.

              They agreed to give me (specifically) the deposit back but I assume the probably pocketed a few dollars from other people.

               

              Thank you for your advice.

              #17474
              scotlandx
              Strataguru

                Oh well done, that is great news!

                And thank you for the update.

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