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I'm needing some input from those with experience. Our OC has an owner who wnats to relocate the kitchen from its original position to what was the main bedroom. The owner originally applied for and received permission to remove a wall between the main bedroom and living area to open it up (there is no special resolution or by-law for this). The EC received engineers certificate and DA from local council.
During wall removal, owner decided to relocate kitchen without approaching the OC – said they had legal advice it was OK. Strata Manager confirmed this – owner can do whatever they like within their unit.
EC held emergency meeting and would not approve kitchen relocation as no plans or details of relocation of services were presented. Work 'supposedly' stopped. Now the owner has installed false ceiling over vermiculte and false wall on common wall and services have been relocated ready for kitchen build. I understand that ceilings, common walls and floors are common property. All floors have been tiled, however kitchen not built yet. Insulation material apparently has been used in floor, wall and ceiling.
This kitchen is to be relocated on a common wall which adjoins the main bedroom of the unit next door. The bedhead abutts the wall where the kitchen is to be installed. There are also main bedrooms above and below this proposed new kitchen.
This work has been done without OC approval and without DA from local council. The other 14 owners do not want this kitchen relocated to the main bedroom area due to obvious disturbance to adjoining units.
Can someone please advise whether the owner has the right to do this work and if not, what action can the OC take to stop relocation of this kitchen. Really need help because SM is no help.
[NB: The property concerned is in NSW even though Waldorf is in Qld – JT]
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My thoughts in passing …….. – it would seem to me that, in principle, the owner can do it as long as he doesn't affect the common property.
There would be some technical items + details that the OC is probably within it's rights to get cleared up before the works go ahead, things like:
– what fixings has he made / does he intend making to attach his false ceiling and false wall to the common property roof slab and common property walls?
– has he ensured that the kitchen drainage goes to the sewer drain stack and NOT to a 'conveniently close-by' stormwater downpipe?
If you have concerns about noise being transmitted across the walls and floor to adjacent bedrooms, then the real issue is the (possibly poor acoustic resistance) quality of the original construction rather than what is happening sound-wise either side of the wall or slab. In short, why do you think that it makes a difference if his room is a kitchen and not the original bedroom? (and if he is moving his kitchen to a location that is 'surrounded' by existing bedrooms of other units, then conversely is he moving HIS bedroom to a location that will be 'surrounded' by the kitchens of those other units?)
The Building Code of Australia has increased sound insulation requirements for “Walls between a bathroom, laundry or kitchen and a habitable room in adjoining dwelling”.
So if the renovation needs to comply with the BCA, the Owners Corporation should be able check that the increased sound insulation standard has been applied.
PK said:
My thoughts in passing …….. – it would seem to me that, in principle, the owner can do it as long as he doesn’t affect the common property.
What about affecting other owners? The Act is sufficiently vague on this to make it a potentially serious issue for the renovator.
117 Owners, occupiers and other persons not to create nuisance
(1) An owner, mortgagee or covenant chargee in possession (whether in person or not), lessee or occupier of a lot must not:
(a) use or enjoy the lot, or permit the lot to be used or enjoyed, in such a manner or for such a purpose as to cause a nuisance or hazard to the occupier of any other lot (whether that person is an owner or not) …
Also, there may be clearer restrictions in the specific by-laws of this building. And – to get back to PK's original point – I can't see how common property wouldn't be affected in some way (and there's a section on that in the Act too).
PK also said …
…why do you think that it makes a difference if his room is a kitchen and not the original bedroom? (and if he is moving his kitchen to a location that is ‘surrounded’ by existing bedrooms of other units, then conversely is he moving HIS bedroom to a location that will be ‘surrounded’ by the kitchens of those other units?)
Firstly, the kitchen floor will almost certainly be tiled – and hard floors never achieve the acoustic insulation of carpet over quality underlay so if the slab isn’t great and they skimp on insulation, there could be problems.
Secondly, it’s the renovator’s choice to sleep under or near someone’s kitchen. His neighbours might prefer not to be woken every morning by the sound of them clattering around upstairs making their breakfast. This also applies to the proper sound insulation of water pipes – a frequently forgotten area of noise irritation.
If it’s a quality build, then there should be no problem but the EC should be able to check that it will be done properly beforehand, rather than find once it’s in, they are faced with the mutual misery of forcing the owner to rip it out and start again.
My first call would be to the local council asking them if they have any feelings on the matter. There is a debate on this elsewhere on the Forum but I know some councils would be saying they wanted a look at the plans, regardless of what the EC felt.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
Thank you for your input Jimmy. I have spoken with the local council building inspector who originally said that the kitchen relocation requires DA. He apparently inspected the property today, however I haven't spoken with him since.The problem is that no-one has seen any plans to know what work has been done and how it has been done because there aren't any!
This afternoon I personally met with and spoke separately to the SM, then the builder then the owner, none of whom can understand why OC approval was necessary prior to starting the work. The owner said that putting water pipes in the ceiling and wall to a new area was not relocating the plumbing because it was being pumped back to the original riser – no new drain was involved. And she was within her rights to do this without consulting the OC. Would this be correct?
There is no doubt common property has been interfered with in this job. The owner's argument is that other renovations have been done without OC approval in this 40+ yo building and that they should be able to do the same. I tried to explain that reconfiguring the unit is a major renovation and needs to be handled differently. The SM, the builder and the owner refuse to believe any approval is needed.
It appears to be a deceptive move – get 'approval' to remove the wall then quietly slip the infrastructure in place to relocate the kitchen before anyone realises.
How do I get help with this situation?
This is what it says in the Act:
116 Owners, occupiers and other persons not to interfere with structure of lot or services to lot
(1) An owner, mortgagee or covenant chargee in possession (whether in person or not), lessee or occupier of a lot must not do anything or permit anything to be done on or in relation to that lot so that:
(a) any support or shelter provided by that lot for another lot or common property is interfered with, or
(b) the passage or provision of water, sewage, drainage, gas, electricity, garbage, artificially heated or cooled air, heating oil and other services (including telephone, radio and television services) through or by means of any pipes, wires, cables or ducts for the time being in the lot is interfered with.
(2) The owner of a lot must not alter the structure of the lot without giving to the owners corporation, not later than 14 days before commencement of the alteration, a written notice describing the proposed alteration.
What can you do about it? You could apply to the CTTT for an interim order to stop work until the situation is resolved. The relevant CTTT fact sheet is HERE. The forms you require are for an interim order and, although an interim order doesn't require mediation, the interim order request must be accompanied by an application for adjudication and for mediation.
This will cost you money and is far from a guaranteed success. So you have to ask yourself what your is desired outcome.
If it's to prevent the work happening at all, then taking this through the CTTT, at this stage, is probably the best approach.
But if you simply want to make sure that no other owner is disadvantaged by this work, then you need guarantees from the renovator that they will remedy any problem that presents iself immediately and without question.
The point of that is to make them make abolutely sure there will be no impact on the rest of the building. It will be very much in the best interests of the renovators to go way beyond the requirements of Australian Building Standards to ensure there is no noise impact on other apartments.
And it's at this point that I can only suggest your EC seeks advice from a specialist strata lawyer as soon as possible. The unanimity in the building against his proposal is a powerful weapon but only a strata lawyer can tell you how to use it most effectively. Your legal advice may well contradict theirs (especially if their lawyer is not a strata expert). It will cost money but it will save everyone a lot of grief in the long term.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
Hi how did you go with this issue ? I'm about to face a similar thing . My nieghbour want to relocate kitchen next to my main bedrom . I am the only one affected in this case re noise . We are about to go to a meeting . he has only supplied crude drawings and plansto fix drainage to common laundry. I think I have other owners support . Council application is required .
One owner feels why not if not affecting them??
Do I go to cttt if its passed by oc?
Thanks
How terrible. I know the noise of plumbing when taps are running is very disturbing through a common wall.
Also kitchens usually have hard floors, not carpet.
Is there another bedroom or living area underneath the proposed kitchen?
It seems that your neighbour has not talked to the local Council about the change as it does not seem right that his drainage would go through a common laundry.
Surely an EC or Owners Corporation can not vote on vague plans, but would need precise plans and drawings drawn up by a professional, as well as Council approval? The owner should also show that licenced tradespeople will be doing the work, not a d.i.y project.
Dishwashers overflowing or pipes leaking can be a problem as has been posted before when water goes into adjoining units.
Waldorf said:
jag said:
Hi how did you go with this issue ? I'm about to face a similar thing . My nieghbour want to relocate kitchen next to my main bedrom . I am the only one affected in this case re noise . We are about to go to a meeting . he has only supplied crude drawings and plansto fix drainage to common laundry. I think I have other owners support . Council application is required .
One owner feels why not if not affecting them??
Do I go to cttt if its passed by oc?
Thanks
There’s more to this renovation than perhaps the owner realises. The OC has a responsibility to seek legal advice to get this process right. To do internal work of this nature, common property will be affected. Your neighbour will need a complete set of plans drawn up by a professional – not hand drawn sketch.
Remember the internal surfaces of floors, ceilings and external + common walls are common property. Before these can be touched, the OC needs to see a lot of paperwork from the unit owner. Plans will need to show all work to be undertaken ie. relocation of plumbing, electrical, water etc. – how and where the services will be relocated; how waste water will be pumped away; any false ceilings/walls etc. including proposed soundproofing (acoustic rated plasterboard + insulating batts for sound, acoustic material for floor etc), proof of insurance cover from the builder and all contractors. It’s a long list.
My advice to the OC is to seek advice from a strata lawyer like we did. That way, everything is done correctly. The OC will need to pass an Exclusive Use By-Law attributing responsibility for future damage the renovations might cause to the unit owner.The local council will need to see all the above prior to approving a DA for the renovation.
Hope it works out.
Hi .
Thanks Waldorf
Our meeting was held but no result as motion was to discuss . The owner is going to seek legal advice and put forward his request again.
I personally have spoken to a strata lawyer who tells me that the proposed kitchen relocation will degrade the amenity of my lot . My situation involves the fact that my main bedroom is the thoroughfare to my garden courtyard with 3 bifold doors . Currently my neighbours 2nd bedroom is the thoroughfare to his yard with opening french doors . There is no window to this bedroom only opening doors . (its a 1950s block which was altered)There is a dividing fence between us . Meaning my bedroom and proposed kitchen doors are 1 meter apart . Any internal sound proofing will not stop noise transmission and odours when doors are open . I have an outdoor setting and if I am there I will hear and visa versa every conversation . Would this hold at the CTTT?
The owner stated in the meeting that he only needs council approval to change plumbing because he is not changing internal walls .
Is this true ?
How do I go about getting the OC to engage a lawyer ? So far the advice I sought was at my own expense .
I have called an executive meeting to discuss the proposal . I'm secretary of EC . Is this a good Idea?
Every council has their own criteria for deciding what needs approval and what kind of approval they need. I would have thought the proposed use of the renovated space was more important than ther fact that the walss aren’t being moved. This is what you need to talk to your council about. Meanwhile, this is very much an issue for the EC as they are supposed to look after the whole building. Changing plumbing and flooring etc etc is totally an EC issue as it affects common property as well as individual amenity. Also, most councils are reluctant to approve works in Strata where the OC or EC has objected to the work. However, failure to object to the plan will be taken as tacit approval. Tlak to council, talk to your strata manager or a lawyer and then hold a meeting. The whole point of strata living is that we share – we don’t just take whatever opportunity arises to increase the value of our own homes at the expense of our neighbours.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
Hi Waldorf,
I am wondering how did this go for you?
I am on a ground floor unit (block of 4) and have a similar situation where the the owner of the unit directly above me is renovating and relocating his kitchen – it will end up directly above my spare bedroom (currently it is above my main bathroom). The OC had given him permission to demolish a wall to open up his kitchen space, however the plans for relocating the kitchen were never really properly presented (included in the drawings shown but not talked about) as he claims it is an internal issue and he is not changing the plumbing. We did not realise this new location of the kitchen until the work started. I am talking to the SM & OC about this and so far they are on my side. I will be engaging a strata lawyer at my own cost. How do I convince the OC to hire a lawyer? Can the EC reverse its approval? The renovating owner has already threatened me with financial repercussions (i.e. pay his costs) if I take the matter further.
Another issue is that our strata also has by bylaws for floor coverings to meet an acoustic rating (basically carpet with insulation) but it does not apply to kitchen, laundry & bathrooms. Would the bylaw still apply for a relocated kitchen?
I am a first time home owner and have no experience in building matters and feeling out of my depth here
I suggest the easiest and fastest way to do something about this is to contact your local Council immediately and tell them what is happening. From what you have outlined about the works, it is likely that they need Council approval.
If works require Council approval they must first be approved by the Owners Corporation and then the plans submitted to Council.
The Council has the power to stop works immediately in such a case. We did that a few years ago where an owner just went ahead with quite extensive renovations with no approvals.
In terms of the scope of the works, if the owner misled the OC in that regard then the approval isn’t valid, to the extent that the works are inconsistent with what was disclosed.
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