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03/12/2011 at 4:42 pm #7809
Hi Jimmy, I have just read your article from My Domain dated 19 06 2010 on the subject of Wooden balconies. it prompted me to write to pass on my experiences with leaking balconies. This is quickly becoming a huge issue, particularly in apartment buildings. The surprising thing is that the buildings are not that old. We are finding they can be anywhere from 2 to 7 years old. Apparently because they are multi dwellings there is no recourse to the builders.
This is not just an issue with apartments but also with single dwelling properties. The clients are desperate to find a solution and they die when we tell them the only way to correctly fix it is to rip it up and start again. Most clients want a quick patch job, we will not patch or seal. We will fix it or leave it.
I would be interested to hear stories from people with this problem. By the way, we are based in Melbourne.
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04/12/2011 at 8:19 am #14329
This is going to be an even bigger issue in NSW with the new limit of two years for claiming against non-structural defects. Non-structural means that it's not involved in actually holding the building up – leaking balconies slip through the net. Some lawyers are advising new apartment owners to plug their balcony drains, flood them and see if they leak before it's too late to clam.
Re Home Insurance Warranty, in NSW it's not required by builders for structures over three storeys high.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
04/12/2011 at 7:19 pm #14337Hi Jimmy, do you know if the time limit will be shortened in Victoria? What would the insurance companies make of this. I'm assuming this will only effect new dwellings built from the ammendment date.
04/12/2011 at 7:24 pm #14338Hi Jimmy, Can the format of your site be altered to allow posting of one or two pictures per posting. It would give readers and yourself a clearer understanding of what is being described.
05/12/2011 at 7:45 am #14340Tricky Leaks said:
Hi Jimmy, do you know if the time limit will be shortened in Victoria? What would the insurance companies make of this. I'm assuming this will only effect new dwellings built from the ammendment date.
Victoria has completely different strata system. Start HERE to find out all you need to know.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
05/12/2011 at 7:48 am #14341Tricky Leaks said:
Hi Jimmy, Can the format of your site be altered to allow posting of one or two pictures per posting. It would give readers and yourself a clearer understanding of what is being described.
It's a good idea but, unfortunately, it was by allowing pictures that my website was hacked earlier this year. I suggest you set up a Flickr account or similar, post your pictures there and then post a link here so people can find them easily.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
05/12/2011 at 7:53 pm #14346Hi Jimmy, we are on flickre and facebook. I will talk to the boss re the link to Flat Chat. Thanks for your help.
08/12/2011 at 8:40 am #14361Hi Jimmy, do you know what percentage of your members would be in Melbourne?
09/12/2011 at 3:31 pm #14365Tricky Leaks said:
Hi Jimmy, do you know what percentage of your members would be in Melbourne.
I'm guessing they are small but growing. Flat Chat doesn't get published in the Melbourne papers and the strata systems are very different. But readership of thewebsite (rather than membership) tends to get a lift when the online version of the Age runs the column.
Amazingly, a huge number of Flat Chat readers don't even live in apartments. Why? Schadenfreunde, I reckon.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
12/12/2011 at 7:16 pm #14393Hi Austman, What you have described is nothing new. I take it you are Melbourne?
13/12/2011 at 1:25 am #14394Austman said:
Despite my making it clear that I didn't want pictures uploaded on to this website, Austman went ahead and did it.
This is the easiest way to introduce a virus to the website and it almost brought us to our knees earlier this year.
I don't have time to extract every picture uploaded on to the site individually so I have deleted Austman's post.
The next person who uploads pictures to the website will be permanently banned.
Sorry! But it was not quite so clear at all. And not even mentioned in the main instruction “How to post to the forum”. It was a simple a cut-and-paste from our own strata blog that did it. I thought any pictures would be deleted automatically if they were a problem – from the “can you change the format of the site” comment. It was not intentional at all. Apologies.
13/12/2011 at 1:33 am #14374Tricky Leaks said:
Hi Austman, What you have described is nothing new. I take it you are Melbourne?
Hi Tricky Leaks. Yes – Fitzroy, Victoria.
And here is my post again, minus the photos [Thanks – JT]. The problem is still on-going!
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Summary
All 6 top floor apartments have experienced water leaking into the apartment from the building’s roof and or external terraces.
History
The problem began to be noticed soon after residents first moved into the apartments in 2004. At that time the original builder attempted to repair the problem in some of the apartments.
The problem in detail
Water leaks appear to be caused by 3 main faults:
The building’s external walls were not correctly flashed to the terraces’ surface. Water can leak through where the wall meets the terrace.
The waterproof membrane beneath the terrace tiles in some cases has been violated. Water can leak though the terrace and the membrane into the apartment below.
Rivets and joins in the metal roof have moved causing sealing to crack. This has allowed water to leak though the roof.There are some other causes too but the above seem to be the main ones.
Actions taken so far
This matter was reported to our Body Corporate managers in 2005. In 2006 they responded as follows:
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Building defects are not within the standard scope of duties of body corporate managers and any work managers do is chargeable. However, in an effort to assist members we arranged for a defect report to be prepared and have regularly tried to contact the builder/developers without success.
… re the issue of VCAT action regarding defects. Management has considerable experience in such matters and we make the following comments:
The fee to lodge a claim is $32.50 as stated
A statement of claim needs to be prepared by the party making the claim (ie the one suffering the damage). To do this a solicitor needs to be engaged and an expert report with costing of the rectification works prepared. Estimated cost $5,000
Attendance at a Directions hearing – solicitor cost $1,000
Mediation hearing – solicitor $2,000
Hearing if mediation fails to resolve the matter – barrister $7,000 per day for possibly 3 days = $21,000
It is naive to consider that a claim can be lodged and you then appear before VCAT without legal representation, expert reports etc and hope to win a case regardless of how obvious the defect may be.
Yours faithfully
Manager
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After the above letter nothing much happened and those managers eventally resigned as our managers, handing over to another company.
To date, most owners have independently tried to have the problem fixed. Some have had some repairs done by the original builder. Some have repaired the damage themselves. Some have claimed the repair costs on the Owners Corporation insurance policy. Some have hired specialist tradespersons. Success has been mixed.
Common Property
All the roof areas and all external terraces of our building are declared Common Property on the Plan of Subdivision. The Owners Corporation has a legal obligation to repair and maintain Common Property. Thus it is the Owners Corporation that has always been responsible for addressing and solving this problem. Strictly speaking owners should not even repair Common Property themselves without Owners Corporation permission.
Future Actions
Although this problem is both a common one (affecting half the apartments) and a Common Property issue, there has never been a unified approach to getting it solved. Ad-hoc repairs might just defer the issue for a few months or years.
That the Owners Corporation is responsible for addressing and solving this problem now seems clear. How the Owners Corporation goes about it is still undecided. Owners should be aware that repairs might turn out to be expensive and that costs would be shared by all 12 owners (according to the standard liability formula).
Letter of Demand
On 18th July 2011, one owner officially demanded that the Owners Cooperation repair the water leaks and the damage caused by them. The intent of the letter was to trigger Owners Corporation processes so that the issue can finally be correctly dealt with.
An extract from the letter:
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18th July, 2011
Dear Managers,
Re: Water Leaks and Damage
There has been significant damage done to the ceiling of my lot by water leaking through the building’s roof and terrace. This seems to be an problem that is affecting other lots as well.
It has been established that the roof and terrace where the leaks are occurring are Common Property. It also has been established that the damaged ceiling of my lot is Common Property.
Under the Owners Corporation ACT 2006, the Owners Corporation must repair and maintain the Common Property.
I therefore request that the Owners Corporation take immediate steps to repair this Common Property.
It might also be prudent of the Owners Corporation to seek advice on how the above water leaks can be prevented from recurring.
Regards,
Owner
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