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  • #8777
    KEB

       I have a sticky situation whereby i signed a lease with a clause added that i could ‘have the dog stay occassionally but not reside on the premises’.  A few things have happened in my first weeks in the property:

      – the owners in another unit complained (within the first 24hrs of us moving in and the dog was being relocated the next day, she didnt bark, bite or do anything to cause a complaint other than just exist)

      – after the complaint by the (lawyer) neighbours, the landlord says she never approved the clause  and that the agent made it up!

      – the landlord verbally told me she was ok with the dog but has since changed her mind.

      – I have been told pets are not permitted by the strata by laws but no one can produce the document for me.

      I would like to know where I stand legally? What are my rights in this situation? Does my signed  lease override the strata by laws? I was not given the by laws when i signed the lease. Its not fair that I suffer because my landlord did not manage the lease signing properly, nor did she get approval from the owners corporation etc but why should i have to move or be without my dog??

       It feels very unfair 🙁  can anyone help or point me in the direction of legal advice? . Thanks

    Viewing 10 replies - 16 through 25 (of 25 total)
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    • #18375
      scotlandx
      Strataguru

        What should have happened is that the landlord, having been told that KEB wanted to have a pet (or have a pet visit, it’s not too clear), then made an application to the EC/OC for permission for that pet to be kept, or to visit (whatever).  The lease could have said, you can have a pet, subject to permission from the OC being granted.  But that didn’t happen.

        The landlord sounds like a tool.

        On the changing of the by-laws front – where an OC changes a by-law to forbid the keeping of animals for example, that by-law can’t apply retrospectively.  So any animals already there can’t be kicked out.  Of course here there was no OC permission given, so you’re in a no-man’s land.  If you haven’t already, put an application for permission in under the current by-law, if they refuse then you probably have grounds to say they are being unreasonable.

        However – there is the lease, and I would be inclined to follow Jimmy’s advice and just stick it out.  The worst that can happen is that you have to leave, and then you can take action against the landlord for the costs incurred because they breached a term of the lease.

        I love that bit about smoking pets.

        #18376
        KEB

          ok… just to clarify a few things…

          I would love to have my dog here permanently that would be great, but I signed a lease with a clause saying she could stay occasionally. (the reason being – verbally expressed by the landlord- that she wanted to introduce the dog slowly, then if everyone was ok with it then keep her here full time). id have loved to have her here full time but was happy to accept this ‘compromise’. Nobody said anything to me about strata laws, getting permission from an OC or anything. Call me naïve but I just assumed that if the landlord oked it that’s all I needed.

          I’m on a 12 month lease. I don’t really want to move yet. I really just want to bring my dog home , and not face any consequences such as fines or eviction…. can they fine me or can I contest that if they do try?

          There are 3 units here,  2 owned by my landlord and one owned by the lawyer. The renters in the 3rd unit are happy for me to keep the dog here. I assumed the landlord and the lawyer make up the OCEC or whatever. maybe I’m wrong. I have sent a letter to the lawyer asking for her permission and I have emailed the lawyer and the landlord requesting permission.

          So far I’ve received no reply- what happens if they ignore my request or drag it out?? how do I get them to hurry up and respond?

          On talking to my landlord she said she intended to meet with the lawyer to discuss permission of the dog- the outcome of this meeting was the decision to ban dogs altogether (yes the landlord is a two faced tool!).

          I think seeing as she is in breach (for not seeking their permission on the dog in the first place) of the OC agreement the lawyer has threatened her and now she is siding with them to get herself out of trouble???????????

          #18379
          kiwipaul
          Flatchatter

            @KEB said:

            I think seeing as she is in breach (for not seeking their permission on the dog in the first place) of the OC agreement the lawyer has threatened her and now she is siding with them to get herself out of trouble???????????

            If your landlord owns 2 out of 3 units (assuming they all have the same entitlement) he can ignore the EC entirely as he has the majority in any vote of the OC  (66%) which can overturn any ordinary motion of the EC.

            The 3rd owner cannot take any action against you or the landlord as he (your landlord) has a majority in any vote (unless he votes to take action against himself unlikely). Your lawyer is up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

            If your landlord has granted you permission (in this situation) in writing I don’t see you having any problem at all. Even if he has changed his mind he cannot go back on a written condition in the lease, and as he owns 2/3 of the strata what he decides goes.

            #18381
            Jimmy-T
            Keymaster

              I think the problem here is that the Landlord is more concerned about keeping the lawyer neighbours happy than looking after her tenant. That may be understandable in the long run but they have signed a legal contract and they have an obligation to both parties – the tenant and other owners – and should be seeking compromise rather than adding fuel to the fire.

              The landlord has the ability to give approval at a general meeting – since she has the majority vote – and you could argue that the permission was given when she signed the lease.

              However, she has chosen not to exercise that power and has instead chosen to renege on her legal contract with the tenant and is even going along with a plan to change the bylaws, which she could easily block.

              The other owner can take action at Fair Trading and the CTTT for the implementation of a by-law, as any resident – owner or tenant – is entitled to do. The by-law requires that EC permission be given and they would ald argue that hasn’t happened.  However, the question of whether or not that permission was withheld unreasonably would come up and it’s quite clear that giving permission in a lease and then withholding it at the EC level is unreasonable by any standards.

              So Keb is on solid ground if the matter goes to the CTTT but she probably needs to get Fair Trading involved right away (cal 13 32 20) and it would be worth looking at the Tenants Union website too, specifically this factsheet.

              The website does have a number of template letters for sending to landlords during disputes – unfortunately none of them come under the category “your  mistake – leave me alone”.

              However there is a sample letter on this page under “Peace, Comfort and Privacy Breach” which might be amended to suit these circumstances.

              Finally, I would move the dog in and let the landlord and lawyer run their case at the CTTT to have it removed, if they want.  Ignore Notices to Comply – on the grounds that the majority of the Owners Corp has given permission – and let them, if they want to push it, take it to the CTTT where I would guess they would be laughed out of court.

              At the same time, I would be looking for a nice new apartment in a genuinely pet friendly building because, given the state of play at the moment, Keb will not be getting the lease renewed at the end of its term.

              Oh, and if Keb found somewhere suitable before the lease ran out, she could use this whole saga as a reason for leaving early. The landlord has breached the terms of the lease – Keb is free to go when she wants.

              The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
              #64692
              hamna
              Flatchatter

                I would like to know where I stand legally? What are my rights in this situation? Does my signed  lease override the strata by laws? I was not given the by laws when i signed the lease. Its not fair that I suffer because my landlord did not manage the lease signing properly, nor did she get approval from the owners corporation etc but why should i have to move or be without my dog??

                Oh sad, I think you need to immediately contact with a professional lawyer. I will recommend you my family lawyer who works for NAME DELETED company. I personally know this man. They will guide you properly according to the law.

                • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by .
                #64695
                Jimmy-T
                Keymaster

                  The name of the lawyer suggested above has been deleted.  Firstly, because it violates the rules of this website.  You may not promote commercial enterprises except in very limited circumstances.  Secondly, the firm suggested are criminal lawyers, not strata lawyers.  Getting a specialist criminal lawyer to work on a strata issue is a good way of wasting time and money.

                  The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                  #64698
                  Boronia
                  Flatchatter

                    – I have been told pets are not permitted by the strata by laws but no one can produce the document for me.

                    Isn’t it a legal requirement that the by-laws are included in/with the Tenancy Agreement?

                     

                    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by .
                    #64701
                    Jimmy-T
                    Keymaster

                      Yes it is. But the fact they weren’t doesn’t change the tenant’s requirement to abide by them.  However, they can take the rental agent to task and maybe even get compensation for having to move home if they can prove they weren’t provided. However, I would say that’s highly unlikely.

                      A savvier renter would have asked to see the by-laws but it’s not something that’s uppermost in tenants’ minds.

                      This is just a mess with no simple solution and finding out who’s at fault will get no one anywhere.

                      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                      #64706
                      86_strata
                      Flatchatter

                        (in Victoria) for the fear of repercussions, I always included the OC rules with the docs supplied to the agent and ensured a clause in the agreement read that the tenant had been supplied a copy of the OC rules and agrees to them.  The clause has served me well on a number of occasions when my final tenant ran amok with the OC time and time again.  Gave my agent good purchase on an argument to get the tenant issued with warnings.

                        #64708
                        Jimmy-T
                        Keymaster

                          – I have been told pets are not permitted by the strata by laws but no one can produce the document for me.

                          Looking at this again, if no one has a copy of the by-laws then they can’t complain if you haven’t stuck by them. And anyway, there can’t be a blanket ban on pets in NSW strata.

                          Sections 38 and 39 of the standard residential tenancy agreement in NSW says the landlord has to a0 show you the by-laws before you sign up and b) give you a copy after you do. The tenant has to sign an acknowledgement that they have seen the Tenants’ Information Statement.

                          The Tenants’ Information Statement says this:

                          What you must be given before you sign an agreement
                          Before you sign an agreement or move into the property, the landlord or agent must give you:
                          • a copy of this Tenant information statement
                          • a copy of the proposed tenancy agreement, filled out in the spaces provided
                          • 2 hard copies, or 1 electronic copy, of the condition report for the property completed by
                          the landlord or agent
                          • a copy of the by-laws, if the property is in a strata scheme.

                          So, all in all, you would have a very strong case for breaking your lease without penalty, should you choose to do so. Or just let the owners corp try to evict you or your pet and see what happens.

                          The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
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