Flat Chat Strata Forum Neighbour noise Current Page

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  • #8214
    Flanet
    Flatchatter

      Hello Jimmy and the Forum,

      In April 2008 the owner occupiers above our L.N.S unit, removed their carpets which had fairly adequately retained much of the noises from coming through the floor slab into our unit. The carpet was replaced by an un-sound attenuated hard flooring; this seems to amplify the noises through the concrete slab into our unit.

      The noises are footsteps, conversations, distressing disputes, crying, two active boys running and jumping and even the noises from cleaning the floor are heard coming from above our heads; it is almost as if the people above and their children were now living with us in our unit as the noises are loud and we are exposed to so much of their lives, waking rowing, talking, playing and cleaning

      Cancer treatment has left me unwell, while rest, uninterrupted sleep and peace are an important part of my recovery, this is impossible. To try to mask the noises from above we keep the Radio or TV quite loudly and also use ear plugs. Even then we can be startled and jump at loud unexpected noises; it is as if there was someone else in our unit. The noises have made our unit unsalable or unlettable.

      After about 9 months of written requests to the Strata Manager (SM) and EC that they support our Noise by laws that were futile; further requests were then made to the SM and EC that the noise issue be taken to Fair Trading (FT). Eventually the EC Minutes minuted that a Notice of Breach of the Noise by laws had been issued to the owners above us. We wrote to the SM, EC requesting we be advised of its progress. Acknowledgments or responses from the SM and EC are almost nonexistent, as there was no noise reduction nor any advice received from the SM, EC. I wrote to FT inquiring had the issue been brought to their attention. After being referred to another section and another letter required they wrote advising they had no knowledge of the matter.

      A letter was sent to the SM and EC with a copy of FT’s letter and advising of how unwell I was and asking them yet again, would they please take action? This elicited a response advising the matter had gone to Mediation and it had been agreed by the SM and the upstairs owner that he would put down carpet squares (not wall to wall or any underlay). We were astounded we were not advised by FT or SM, EC and were not been given the opportunity to put the extent of the noise to the Mediator and that a carpet square would be considered adequate to stop the transmission of noise from this unit into our unit, it all defied common sense. After the carpet squares were put down some of the walking and jumping noises were not as loud, but the loud angry voices and most of the noises continued to be most disturbing and at times distressing.

      As we had found the SM and EC to be poor communicators, we were now unsure that the owners above us had been advised how distressing their noises were, we decided we would write to them. As a result of a number of letters the noises gradually decreased, to the point we are only now being badly disturbed several periods day and not every night,

      We have learned yesterday (not from the SM) that the owners above us would be moving out, but not selling; they intend to rent out the unit!

      We are in our seventies and while I am still in remission my health in not improving and compromised by all this noise and sleep disturbance; we no longer have peace, let alone peaceful enjoyment and our concerns are:

      • that the owners above will take their carpet squares with them leaving the unsound attenuated timber flooring
      • we may receive a pay back for complaining and the unit let to more noisy neighbours on un- sound attenuated flooring
      • that we may have to go though the last 3- 4 years of more noise again.
      • we are unable to move as the noises have made our unit unsalable and even at a great reduction it is  most doubtful anyone would take on these noises.

      Just now the packing up has started along with additional noise. It is hard swimming up steam and then not to make any headway! We are really in need of good advice.

      Jimmy and Flatchat are regarded as a great source of reliable balanced information and good advice so please keep up the good work.

      Kind regards Flanet

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    • #15760
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        It sounds like your EC and strata manager are part of the problem rather than the solution.  Their mediation has no binding legal standing as far as you are concerned as you were not part of the agreement.  You can completely by-pass the EC and SM and take this on yourself (or even get a strata lawyer to do it for you).

        I wouldn’t delay a moment longer in raising this with Fair Trading, even if you may have to go through the mediation process yourselves again.  Look at it this way, it will make the unit a harder for your selfish upstairs neighbours to let out if prospective tenants find out that they may have to move out while carpets are laid or even if the whole floor has to be put down again.

        No one has the right to enhance the value of their own property at another owner’s expense and, frankly, carpet squares are a joke and your EC and Strata Manager need their backsides kicked for agreeing to them, especially without consulting you.

        Go to https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/pdfs/About_us/Forms/medform.pdf to start the process and have a serious think about talking to a strata lawyer at the very least to find out how much it would cost to run this case.  It may be worth it to prevent your unit form being, as you say, unsaleable.

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #15787
        Anonymous

          Hi Flanet,

          Unfortunatly this is too common a problem. I totally agree with Jimmy’s recommendation [to consult a strata lawyer] and most strata lawyers will not bill the first meeting. However to get the best from your time with the strata lawyer try and source the following and bring it with you (as an owner you should be able to get copies from your SM)

          1) Copy of your Strata Plan

          2) Copy of all by-laws (This is important as many schemes have specific by-laws that set rules to what Actions Owners must take in carrying out renovations or changes to the common property, if this type of by-law exists it can be very helpful in seeking an order from the CTTT to have the non approved or non compliant work returned to its original state or have the works modified to have a sound and/or heat insulation barrier installed.

          3) provide a chronology (event timeline) of events and correspondence particularly correspondence with the EC, SM and Lot Owner.

          Integrated is dealing with a number of these applications with the CTTT at anyone time, however all have there own issues so the first step is get some legal advice.

          Once your particular issues and complexities are know an individual action plan can be instigated, which may be a stern letter to the OC and the lot owner, the threat of making an application with the CTTT often gets things moving. An accoustic test may need to be taken, however this cost is normally avoided.

          Just a quick word on mediations; a mediator can’t and will not take sides or make determinations, their role is to assist the parties to work out their issues. On items like this I always start with a site view so all parties can hear the issue and then proceed to a venue suitable for Mediations. I find a site view and in this case (noise view) is of great assistance as quite often, except for yourself, others have not experienced the issue and this process often results in statements like “we weren’t aware of the extent of noise” etc.

          I hope this will be of some assistance, if you need any expert reports or testing etc ask your lawyer to get a fee proposal from us, it’s more then likely your lawyer will know us and or use us as we are the largest strata support consultancy firm and provider of expert reports for litigation

          Regards Chris Mo’ane
          GMD
          Integrated Consultancy.

          #15819
          Flanet
          Flatchatter
          Chat-starter

            Hello Chris,

             

            Thank you again, Jimmy and your response have been helpful and encouraging.

            It would be appreciated if you could suggest any solicitors that have a good track record with the CTTT in preference to just nominating a firm.

            The situation I am in has been well documented and pulling this together should not be onerous. However my health is such that assistace with its presentation and any mediation required is where I would greatly appreciate assistance.

             

            Regards

            Flanet

             

              

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