Flat Chat Strata Forum Neighbour noise Current Page

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  • #8526
    davebois
    Flatchatter

      We moved into an apartment in Darlinghurst just over three months ago. The apartment is only small (12 units, three floors) and in beautiful condition in a charming old building. With the location and condition comes a hefty monthly rent split between the three of us (a couple and single all late 20s). But we were happy to pay the extra to finally get an apartment in such great condition in a lively area of Sydney.

      In the first week after we had moved in we received a handwritten letter in our mailbox from our downstairs neighbours. It welcomed us to the building and told us that they had been living there for five years.

      It then went on to warn us that the building was prone to noise travelling, and listed many activities that we should avoid, which ranged from loudly shutting doors (fair enough), wearing hard shoes inside (we have wooden floorboards, so fair enough again) to ‘kitchen activities’ , ‘moving chairs’, etc. etc. It also suggested we carpet areas of the house such as the hallway, etc.

      We thought the letter was a bit over the top, but took it on board because it is an old building and thought perhaps the previous tenants had been particularly noisy, or perhaps they were referencing the usual noise we would have made moving in – although we did move in on a weekend in the day.

      As we all work hectic schedules, we never got around to replying to the letter. But as it was a ‘heads up’ we didnt think it was too important to reply.

      Then about two weeks later we received a call from our agent who said that our downstairs neighbour had called our landlord (the landlord herself was living in the apt before us and we assume they know each other personally?) and asked them to personally tell us we need to be considerate of noise.

      This was confusing to us, because we had been extra careful to avoid making noise where we could, such as not wearing shoes inside, we bought rugs for the lounge room and bedrooms, and we had not even had guests over yet.

      We explained to the agent about the letter and that we had already taken steps to be considerate of noise, and they suggested we simply reply to the neighbours to let them know we understood. 

      So we did, we wrote them a letter saying thanks and noted.

      Then this week, just over two months on, we got a call from the agent again saying that the building strata had received a formal complaint about noise which again listed ‘heavy footsteps, slamming doors, loud music throughout the day, meetings on the balcony and singing’.

      Again we were caught off guard as following the last call we had been overly cautious, and I would even say paranoid about making unecessary noise.

      While we’re really at odds on how we could possibly tred more softly around the apartment or close doors more gently, some of the complaints were not just exaggerated but also false.

      For example, I work from home and so there is no way that I could possibly be playing loud music throughout the day, as I couldn’t myself work, which includes taking constant calls from clients. Both my housemates work fulltime externally.

      I could only assume the ‘meetings on the balcony’ referred to the one and only evening two weeks ago where we had guests over and sat on the balcony. This is the one and only time we’ve had guests at all in our time at the property.

      Clearly we are dealing with precious neighbours, who are intent on making this a formal issue… we have responded to our agents with our concerns, but they were really only interested in getting our acknowledgement that they had passed on the complaint, and not so interested in the specifics.

      I should point out we live directly across a small laneway from a very popular bar, and right around the corner from a hospital emergency department. How they can be so precious with footsteps is beyond me as Darlinghurst is hardly the most peaceful neighbourhood in Sydney.

      Our concern here is that the strata and landlord are not receiving our response, and should the neighbours make another complaint, this will be a third complaint against us and the landlord may simply take the number of complaints as an indication of our conduct, rather than the actual situation.

      We do not want to move, nor do we want to have our lease terminated – finding good rentals in Sydney is hard enough without a bad lease against your name.

      How do we as renters, without the ability to respond directly to strata, ensure that our landlord and the strata are aware of our responses to the situation? And how do we also let the neighbours know that we pay our fair share of rent and expect to be able to resonably live in our apartment without being hassled.

      We are now paranoid about the smallest noises we make.

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    • #17036
      Whale
      Flatchatter

        In the first instance, I’d write or e-mail your Property Manager (Agent) to formally explain that you have responded to the previous written representations by your neighbour and to those matters raised with them (i.e. your Agent) by the Landlord and the Owners Corporation, and that you vehemently deny making any noise of a type that would cause a disturbance. I’d include the fact that you work from home together with any other information to support your position.

        Ask your Property Manager to forward that formal explanation / response to both your Landlord and to the Strata Manager for the information of the Owners Corporation.

        Beyond that, I wouldn’t be too worried as if the Owners Corporation (O/C) is of the opinion that you have breached By-Law 1 (which relates to noise) then they are first required to issue you with a “Notice to Comply”; not letters of phone calls. 

        If the O/C is of then of the opinion that you have again breached (i.e. not complied) then that initiates a formal dispute resolution process involving the Strata Division of the Consumer, Trader, & Tenancy Tribunal where you would have ample opportunity to explain the situation.

        By the way, a complete list of all By-Laws applicable to the Strata Plan where your Unit is located must be provided to you by your Property Manager within 7 days of your tenancy commencing; ensure that you have that for future reference.

        You can read some further information HERE

        #17051
        davebois
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          Thanks Whale. 

          Your suggestion is what we were already thinking was most appropriate, so it’s good to know we’re on the right track.

          I forgot to include a response to the mention of ‘singing’ in the complaint…

          Our housemate does like to sing whilst at home, and somedays will do an hour of practice, scales and the like, when he gets home from work – he studied music before moving on with his current career.

          The fact the singing was mentioned means they must be able to hear him, but following their first complaint (which didnt mention singing) we already discussed with him that he needs to keep it to under an hour of practice and not go after 8pm. We also agreed he’d keep the volume down to a level that we can barely hear him in our own apartment, let alone adjoining ones. He’s been strict on this, and so have we.

          When he does sing, we can hear him softly in the adjacent room, but not if we have the TV on, or if we’re talking. He’s no louder than a TV in another room.

          While the other complaints such as audible footsteps are somewhat unavoidable, I feel the singing might be a bigger issue as they could very well say that the nature of the singing is annoying, not the volume.

          We were told that the couple below us work from home, and assuming the layout in their apartment is the same as ours directly above, we can assume the room below my housemates would be their home office.

          I think this is contributing to the complaints – I am sympathetic to some degree as I also work from home, but I don’t think they should have too much cause for complaint if the singing is only for an hour max, at a moderate level and after 5pm and before 8pm. Their ability to conduct their home business shouldn’t really play into this as it is a residential property not commercial.

          It’s clear to us that they consider any noise to be offensive noise and seeing they complained and exaggerated about the only instance we have ever had guests over, I can see that they would do the same here.

          The general guidelines about noise say music must be turned off or limited after 10pm, and we’ve been sure he keeps well within these, but it also says they have right to complain if the ‘nature’ is annoying, which is broad enough to include anyones biased opinion.

          While we’d like them to know we’re self imposing these considerations on our ourselves to ensure we’re considerate of others, we dont actually want to get into details with them, as once we offer them a prescribed list of parameters, they’re sure to complain if it ever goes outside of them.

          We want to make a case here, as we’ve done all we can think of to be considerate, but we still want to be able to enjoy our apartment.

          Thanks db

          #17068

          Hi davebois,

          I agree with Whale, best to start your own paper trail. Reply to all correspondence in writing and refer to the telephone calls as in ‘further to our telephone conversation on such n such a date’. This way your replies will probably be sent on to the relevant parties. Possibly the complaint will be sent to the EC and your replies should then be too.

          Best of Luck, CBF Smile

          #17071
          FlatChatFan
          Flatchatter

            Davebois, for the most part it is obvious you have really been trying hard to keep the noise down, but singing scales and practicing for an hour seems over the top.

            You may not hear him in another room but if he is directly above someone trying to work, the irregular sounds might be going straight down.

            Practicing singing is just the same as practicing any other musical instrument and could be just as annoying. You can get a practice pad for drumming but nothing I know of to mute a voice to others.

            You did not say your flatmate had a ‘good’ voice but had some singing training.  Even a good voice singing scales is not entertaining.

            Most of us will turn off professionally made music in the first few seconds if it is not the type of music we like, but your neighbours do not have a switch to stop it.

            Possibly your neighbours are keeping their own sound diary, and maybe even recording the ‘singing’. 

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