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  • #10132
    Dudley
    Flatchatter

      Good Morning All,

      I have noticed two new charges in our Strata Plans Cash Management Account.

      Secure Records Destruction, this charge first appeared last financial year – circa $35.00 and this year circa $70.00. Is this a fair charge?

      NSW Child Window Safety Compliance Check – $110.00. I supplied the required information to the strata manager – via e-mail. Is this a fair charge?

      I would appreciate your opinions.

      Regards,

      Dudley

    Viewing 7 replies - 1 through 7 (of 7 total)
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    • #23955
      Whale
      Flatchatter

        Dudley – in general terms, some Strata Managers routinely add charges that may be relatively small in the context of a Plan’s overall expenses and therefore often slip-through unchallenged, but when taken in the context of the numbers of Plans under their management, those charges can be a quite lucrative income stream.

        So good on you for getting into the detail!

        Specifically, the charge that you refer to for “secure records destruction” is probably, as the title suggests, a fee for the proper disposal of the Owners Corporation’s records that exceeds the period that the Regulation requires that they be kept/archived (typically 5 years). Whilst I never cease to be amazed by the amount of hardcopy records that Strata Manager’s still generate and must therefore keep in this digital age, depending upon the amount of “paper” involved the Fee’s probably reasonable.

        The charge for a “window safety compliance check” is interesting, as the Section of the Act that mandates that “compliance” doesn’t require child-proof window locks to be in place until March 2018. So whilst some checking of compliance after that date may be justifiable, a Fee 3 years out is probably just for income generation purposes.

        Strata Managers can generate significant “supplementary income” from additional fees of the types that you’ve mentioned, but in fairness all such items and their applicable fees are required to be included in the Schedules (I think “D”) to the Strata Management Agency Agreement that the Strata Manager has with the Owners Corporation, so obtain a copy of that from them or from your Secretary and have a close look; you may be surprised!

        #23959
        Dudley
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          Good Evening Whale,

          Many thanks for your reply,

          Re secure records destruction; we are a 4 townhouse strata, with minimum contact with the strata manager company. The majority of maintenance and repairs when needed are arranged by the owners and the invoices are sent to the strata manager for payment. Thus your amazement at the “paperwork” generated is shared by me. In fact I believe it is just supplementary income generation.

          Re window safety compliance check; this is just another supplementary income generation activity. Our strata plan is in Sydney and I assume that the March 2018 timeline is applicable here. Our AGM is to be held this week and I intend to raise this matter at the meeting.

          I have reviewed our Strata Management Agency Agreement, it has been in force for quite a long time – Dec 2004 – and there is not much detail. Would it be appropriate to ask for an updated contract listing “current” fees and charges. I am, unfortunately, the only owner who seems to least bit interested in the costs and operation of the strata plan.

          I have suggested to the other owners that we consider a semi self managed plan, at this time with no success.

          Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.

          Regards,

          Dudley

          #23963
          Whale
          Flatchatter

            Dudley – the provisions relating to Owners Corporations and their obligations regarding window safety devices can be found in the NSW Strata Schemes Management Act (1996) at Sect 64A and the phasing-in provisions are shown at Schedule 4 Pt 8.

            As for the form of the standard Strata Management Agency Agreement, that document “template” in its latest form is provided to Strata Managers by their peak industry group, Strata Community Australia (NSW), and whilst it’s not available to non-members it can be quite easily found via an internet search, and its essential terms can be found HERE and YES, its entirely appropriate for you / your Owners Corporation to ask your Strata Manager for a copy of the latest version.

            #24108
            Dudley
            Flatchatter
            Chat-starter

              Good Morning All,

              It is now some time – 20th August 2015 – since our AGM at which I raised the above issues.

              In simple terms I was told to write to the Strata Manager Company General Manager. This I did and to date have received no response.

              Yesterday I received my copy of the cash management report – one of the items which I raised as an area of concern, not being sent on a regular basis.

              In my previous e-mails I raised concern about the cost of secure record destruction – in the first quarter cash management report I note $66.00 for secure record destruction plus a new charge – Electronic Archiving and Secure Destruction $129.63.

              Our strata plan comprises 4 town houses. We have no pool, no elevators and minimal common area. Rarely do we need to employ trades people and in the majority of cases owners handle this. Our property is in excellent condition, there are no outstanding repairs required and our financial position is healthy.

              As the strata manager does not acknowledge or respond to my correspondence and the other owners will not become involved in strata matters I am at a loss to know what my nest step should be.

              I would like to move to a semi-self managed strata plan – one which attended to the paperwork and record keeping etc with the maintenance handled by the owners. However, I do not see that I would gain support for this move. We have one absentee owner who has their town house tenanted and does not become involved – additional costs are obviously passed on to the tenant/s. Of the remaining owners one would support my proposal and the other against any suggested change – more a personal decision than a rational decision.

              Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

              Dudley 

              #24131
              Whale
              Flatchatter

                Dudley – as usual I’m picking up on unanswered posts before they drop off the list of “recents”.

                It’s interesting that your Strata Manager hasn’t as yet responded to your correspondence. Perhaps that’s because there’s so much new strata development going on (or up actually) that some are of the opinion that they can afford to be non-responsive, even if that results in them loosing a client here and there.

                If that’s your Strata Manager’s attitude, real or implied, then maybe you should assist them to loose your Plan’s business by placing a Motion in those terms on the Agenda for your next General Meeting.

                You only need a simple majority in favour to achieve that end, so with one no-show, one against, and two in favour, your Motion would pass. As as safety net, check the units of entitlement (UOE) for each of the 4 lots, as if they’re unequal and that apportionment favours your lot and/or that of your like-minded neighbour, then a poll-vote (calculated on UOE instead of a show of hands) may work in your favour.

                You need to do some homework in advance though, and as I mentioned before that involves obtaining a copy of your Owners Corporation’s Agency Agreement with the current Strata Manager and (at least) checking its termination provisions and whether or not the Strata Manager has breached any term/s; have you done that yet?

                You also need to find a possible replacement Strata Manager; have you done any work on that, and about one who offers your preferred Record-Keeping Agreement and who may be prepared to assist you with the process of removing the incumbent?

                I know that all this involves more work for you, but that’s one of the things that less than efficient Strata Manager’s rely upon, that being that nobody will be bothered to put in the effort!

                #24132
                Dudley
                Flatchatter
                Chat-starter

                  Good Morning Whale,

                   

                  Many thanks for your reply.

                   

                  I now have agreement from two other owners to investigate alternative strata options. Unfortunately I do not believe that includes a semi-self managed scheme.

                   

                  I have read the “Management Agency Agreement – Owners Corporation” It notes in clause 5 that the agreement commences on 10 November 2004 and is for a term of 12 months. Standard terms apply thereafter – 3 months notice.

                   

                  Re possible replacement – I have spoken to a couple of strata managers, our plan is small and does not seem to be attractive to those I spoke to. I would appreciate any suggestion as to my next steps. Some time ago I approached a company – a sponsor of Flat Chat – about a semi-self managed scheme, the proposal was acceptable to me but as previously related not to my fellow owners. I am aware that I may be seen as a “time-waster” but I am so frustrated by the current position I am in. Obtaining the consensus of my fellow owners is like herding cats. 

                   

                  The problem I have boils down to a clash of personalities between myself and another owner who seems to think that utopia exists in the strata world.

                   

                  I guess I should strive for a new strata manager who is reasonable and ethical, and forget about the savings we could obtain by looking after our own maintenance – which is historically minimum.

                   

                  Do you think I should follow up with our strata management company re the non-response to my letter and the additional charges for document destruction?

                   

                  Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

                   

                  Regards,

                   

                  Dudley   
                  #24133
                  Jimmy-T
                  Keymaster

                    Just a few things for you and your neighbour to consider:

                    About half the strata schemes in NSW are self-managed (although how efficiently, is another matter).

                    Strata Res (our sponsors) offer a half-and-half service which suits schemes that want to do most of the stuff themselves but also want advice and support on the tricky stuff.

                    Large  strata firms tend to shy away from small schemes because their involvement isn’t worth the money they get.  If you take an average of $250 per lot per year, and then consider that one problem resident or one major maintenance issue can take up days or even weeks of their time, regardless of the size of the building, you are not going to be as high on their priorities as a building of 100 units or more.

                    If you do go for a full-service strata manager, go for a contract that charges less up-front but then adds on costs on a user-pays basis.  That way you only pay for the service you get and there is an incentive for them to do more for you, if you need it.

                    More expensive all-in services have the opposite effect.  The strata firm has made its money so every time they make a phone call or write a letter for you, it’s a cost to them. These contracts are better suited to large schemes where you know there is going to be work for the SM and they want to hang on to the income.

                    Strata managers are human but they are also businesses.  Don’t expect to get something for nothing.

                    The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
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