Flat Chat Strata Forum Strata Committees Current Page

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  • #7175
    Jimmy-T
    Keymaster

      THIS COLUMN WAS BASED ON AN EDITED VERSION OF A DISCUSSION THAT ORIGINATED IN THE FLAT CHAT FORUM.  YOU CAN SEE ALL THE EXCHANGES IN FULL – AND JOIN IN WITH YOUR OWN OPINION – BY GOING TO FLAT-CHAT.COM.AU/FORUM OR JUST CLICKING ON THE FORUM LINK ON THIS PAGE.

      QUESTION: Our committee issues complaints through the strata manager to individual owners with wording like, “It has come to our notice …”, or “A number of complaints have been received …”

      The alleged complaints are always anonymous and some owners believe the committee chairman initiates them to harass and intimidate owners. There is no documentation to support the “complaints” and the chairman and the committee won’t discuss the matter with the owner. There is usually no reference in the committee meeting minutes.

      In essence, charges are laid without any evidence and the owner can’t reply to the claims, can’t mount a defence, and definitely can’t rectify a situation if it really exists. Have you any thoughts about the advisability of an executive committee entertaining anonymous and undocumented complaints? – Anonymous George (suburb withheld).

      ANSWER: There’s complete anonymity on Flat Chat but there’s no such thing as private correspondence within a strata plan. As an owner you are entitled to see anything written to or by the Executive Committee.

      If an owner or resident has written to your committee, you can inspect the correspondence.  If the strata manager or chairman says it was a phone call, you are entitled to ask who the phone call was from and what the response was.

      Executive committee office-bearers can’t issue Notices to Comply without the EC holding a meeting to discuss the complaint. Many would argue that the secretary –  not the chairman – is the only person who can issue a warning. If the complaints haven’t been minuted in meetings they effectively don’t exist and I would respond to that effect.

      Strata managers who have been delegated the powers of the EC have to show the  ‘paper trail’ of complaints, especially if they are challenged in court or at the CTTT.

      Sometimes you need to find ways round that, such as when a resident is scared of their neighbours.  But  a power-mad chairman consistently using anonymous complaints against owners is nothing short of a form bullying.

      Joint the discussion or raise a question of your own on the Flat Chat Forum at flatchat.com.au/forum.

      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
    Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 18 total)
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    • #12297
      Anonymous

        There are the bully executive committees with bully members; there are the bully, inconsiderate residents who subject everyone else to their unfair noise, tobacco smoke drift and all manner of anti-social behaviour which always seems to come together in one package; there are the people scared of complaining about the neighbours who may be genuinely frightening; there are those who will put up with lots simply because they don’t want to make waves… there are those who want the quiet life and those who just want to party 24 hours a day. There are young people, old people, families with kids and babies… there are also the gutless and hopeless sheltered workshops of The Office Trading and The CTTT where everything takes an interminable age to get done… there are the lazy strata managers ripping us off left, right and centre… and there are baseball bats. Just kidding! But seriously why can’t everyone just be thoughtful and considerate of others in strata blocks?!

        #12298
        Anonymous

          I have been Secretary and EC Member and lived in apartments. It is completely reasonable to want a complaint within a building to be anonymous and for the strata managers to deal with. Most building managers will ask for it in writing for future litigation and will not act on a complaint unless it is in writing. Many nutbags live in apartments and generally speaking the type who do not comply with bylaws are the type to take revenge on neighbours who complain about their antisocial behaviour.I personally have had my car keyed, my tyres let down and screwdrivers jammed into my locks and personal abuse at my door just because I was probably aware of the source of complaint. GO FIGURE!

          #12299
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster
          Chat-starter

            I totally sympathise with this point of view and there has to be a happy medium. All the antisocial activity described here is criminal and at some point probably the police should be brought in before it gets out of hand. The fact remains that there are people at the extremes of both sides of the story – bullying residents and EC members. But there is one grey area that allows anonymity to be used judiciously … and that’s if nobody complains. The original letter writer on this topic is being hounded out of his home because he dared to stand up for another resident who was the subject of a spate of “anonymous” complaints. But as long as everyone act with good intentions that we can work with and around the laws.

            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
            #12302
            Anonymous

              Hey Jimmy, Thanks for the reply but without a witness how shall we get a response from police? Strata is a world on its own. CTTT rarely acts fairly. EC Committees volunteer their time, and on behalf of the entire building. It is about time Owners realize their Committees volunteer their time WITHOUT PAY. AND IT IS A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME.  If an Owner is concerned regarding actions of their Committee they may peruse the Strata records or bloody well volunteer their time to get on the Committee. Put in some effort for the good of the entire building or nick off! 

              YellYell

              #12303
              Jimmy-T
              Keymaster
              Chat-starter

                I hear you.  I just had this flash of genius – how about Strata Cops? It would be a mixture of private eyes and security who come in, install listening devices, cameras and monitors then present the evidence to the CTTT on behalf of the owners. I'm serious! Everything from overcrowded units and illegal short term lets to barking dogs, noisy floors, illegal parking and constant parties. Even better if you can find a way to charge this back to the culprits.  Hmmm … must go and trademark the name StrataCops.

                JimmyCool

                The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                #12306
                struggler
                Flatchatter

                  If a resident makes a situation known to the EC about a resident being in breach of and the EC verifies it, then why have to put a name to it?  I agree with a previous comment that the type of person who continually breaks by-laws is the type of person to take revenge.

                  I have a friend who has complained in her complex and she has been harrassed and has had her car parked in so she cannot get to work.  And of course, she can't get the car towed because it is private property can't call the police and the DFT won't let you tow unless it is agreed upon by all owners.

                  If a complaint can be verified (ie a resident can be seen to be in breach of such as misuse/destruction of common property) then one should be able to tell the committee and let them take action.  I have no problem with the “it has come to the notice of the committee” letter.  But then again, I abide by the strata by-laws. 

                  I moved into strata for the protection I thought it gave me.  But there seems to be no way to address those who do not do the right thing.  Can't you leave anonymous tip offs for the police about a situation?  But you can't tip off the EC about a situation?  The police then have to go and verify any wrongdoing before acting.  Can't the EC verify then act? I Can't wait to get out of strata!  There is no protection for those who do the right thing.  The wrong doers plead harrassment.  Don't do the wrong thing – no complaints!  And the more people get away with doing wrong, with no one game to point it out, then the more people will do wrong. 

                  #12307
                  Jimmy-T
                  Keymaster
                  Chat-starter

                    This is exactly the grey area I've been talking about.  If someone informally approaches the EC  (because they are scared) and the EC confirms that there is an issue, then they can take action without having to identify the complainant.  The identity of the original complainant is irrelevant once you've established that there is a genuine problem. And I realise I may be contradicting myself here (that's why it's a grey area) but there's a difference between that and someone on the EC saying there's been a complaint when quite clearly they are using this to intimidate and harrass.  How do you tell the difference? Basically, it's whether there's really a problem or not.  The issue with the car a quite clearly a breach of some by-law or another and if the EC isn't prepared to back this owner, they should get off the committee and let someone with a spine take over.  But then that should apply to people running Fair Trading and the CTTT.  But the same kind of thing happens in houses.  Friends of mine live near a house with a barking dog.  When neighbours complained the dog had to be removed.  Now the dog owners deliberately leave a door open so it will bang all night in the breeze.  It's not strata that's the problem – it's selfish antisocial scumbags.

                    The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                    #12315
                    Anonymous

                      This is a brilliant discussion, having been the victim of such bullying. Can anyone tell me, do the same rules/laws apply to Company Title buildings?

                      #12316
                      Jimmy-T
                      Keymaster
                      Chat-starter

                        Without knowing the details, I’d say no. Company Titles come under company law (not strata law) and therefore you have to take complaints and actions to the Supreme Court not Fair Trading.

                        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                        #12317
                        Anonymous

                          The situation I have is similar. The committee has created some rules of its own, icluding a vehicle speed limit. There are too lazy to create a proper bylaw, so they just decide to spend money on a sign, and suddenly the new rule is in force. But the problem is that they then use this rule and anonymous, undocumented complaints about speeding, to harass owners that they don’t like.

                          One owner is currently disputing the comittee’s actions over a bylaw. While the dispute is going through the adjudication process, the committee has embarked on a campaign that has includd anonymous complaints of noise (now withdrawn), threats of legal action for defamation and, more recently, comments in the minutes such as “Villa xx and Villa yy continually breach this speed limit.”

                          The latest is a letter including the comment “The owners at the complex have advised that a number of residents, including yourself, are exceeding the vehicle speed limit…”. No documentation is available, no indication of dates or times, no evidence indicating how the speed was measured, and no explanation as to why the driver wasn’t spoken to at the time.

                          How do you stop a committee from using it’s made-up rules to harass and embarrass owners that it is in dispute with?

                          #12337
                          struggler
                          Flatchatter

                            When we have a problem such as driving fast in the driveway, we write a “Notice to all Residents” sent via the managing agent.  In this way, we remind all residents of this rule (and whatever other rule is broken).  No names, no numbers, just a reminder to all.  If you just notified the one, someone else will just step into their place!  Have only mentioned unit nos when common property has been damaged/changed and  even then only when the resident has not complied with request to recitify.  And then we sent a notice out to all regarding common property.

                            #23518
                            Millie
                            Flatchatter

                              I’ve dragged this up from years ago…the title of the posts was too delicious to ignore.

                              Question:  what if it is the EC/SMA/Building Manager who have been engaged in dodgy activity and someone speaks/writes to them, then applies to the CTTT/NCAT (dismissed…!) etc, etc?  

                              And what if that someone is then the subject of repeated and ongoing legal threats, and stories being evented about them and those stories being backed up by all the ‘gang’ members – the EC/SMA/Building Manager – and being named and shamed, and named and shamed, and said to be doing this and that, and that and this in the EC Minutes circulated to all Owners?  

                              And what if that someone does strata searches, as permitted by Legislation, but nothing can be found:  all that correspondences is in a former Owner/EC Member’s offices…not the Strata Manager’s office…and the naming and shaming and threats go on and on?

                              What can one do?  

                              Remember, Fair Trading hasn’t helped one jot to date.

                              #23523
                              Whale
                              Flatchatter

                                I recon that someone should make an application for the statutory appointment of a Strata Manager, and then sell-up and buy a torrens titled property!!

                                #23524
                                Millie
                                Flatchatter

                                  Thanks for your reply Whale.

                                  I’ve submitted more than a 1,000 pages to the Dept Fair Trading/CTTT/NCAT – all of them.  They’ve dismissed everything.

                                  Those who control our building make a total mockery of the whole NSW set up which is meant to protect Strata Owners and take action against shonky and/or illegal operators.

                                  Call me an optmistic fool, but ‘something’s got to give’, and BIG TIME!

                                  #23678

                                  I came here to try and get an insight into ECs, as a tenant who has just had a complaint made about me. I got the line from the manager as ‘it has come to our attention that…’ blah blah. The anonymity bugged me because I talk to 90% of my neighbours, owners and renters alike, and then I had to wonder who was stabbing me in the back instead of just speaking to me about the issue (which I would have been extremely happy to work with them to resolve). I’m not a psycho or an anti-social nutbag, so it just seemed sly on their part to complain in such an underhanded way when it could so easily have been resolved by a simple conversation.

                                  Anonymous complaints just serve to create hostility and suspicion, even if the complaint is valid. You look at everybody wondering who’s looking for things to whinge about behind their smile.

                                  Call me old-fashioned (and I’m only 30), but I prefer the old knock-on-the-door-and-have-a-chat approach first and formal complaints as a last resort. In fact Fair Trading ADVISES people to talk about it as a first step before getting the committee involved. I wish more EC members would take that advice. Making complaints without giving the person in question a chance to sort it out first is almost guaranteed to create tension and dislike. They may not have even realised they were doing something wrong!

                                  That’s what’s happened here once I discovered (through friends on the committee!) that the complainant in my case is my closest neighbour, who’s never given me the slightest indication that they were in any way bothered by anything I did. We’ve never said much more than hello but we’ve certainly never had any disagreements either. So now it’s awkward.

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