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I’ve been reading this forum for a while, but an incident last night has finally brought me to the posting deep-end..!
First, some background: we are four people living in a three bedroom GF apartment (two singles, one couple) in renovated late 70s block on Canberra’s south side. There are three apartments above us, all with balconies, though ours is the biggest. The block isn’t the silentest of places, with not very great soundproofing all around, and the ambient noise is fairly high as it’s across the road from a pub and a football club. Taking all that into account, it’s a nice safe area, and we four mid- to late-20s professionals very much enjoy it. I came here in February.
Back in April, on probably the last evening that it was warm enough to enjoy our balcony for any length of time, we had a birthday BBQ on a Thursday afternoon, with us four joined by two friends. As BBQs do this carried on into the evening. A round of Singstar was aborted at 9pm when the upstairs neighbour (who had moved in after purchasing about two months prior) poked his head over the balcony and asked us to keep it down. Dutifully we turned the game off, and we resumed sitting outside on the balcony, talking, with soft music playing from an indoor iPod dock. At 9:30 he pokes his head out again, asking us to keep it down, as he has to get up at 5am. Well, again, we thought this was fair enough and turned the music off completely; two people went home, so it was just the four residents sitting outside with drinks, talking. Not laughing, or yelling, or screaming, just talking about our respective days at work. Half an hour later, 10pm, he leans over again, screams at us to shut up, and that as he was an owner-occupier he had the right to tell us to be quiet as we were ‘just renters’. While the urge to tell him to PO was high, we obeyed and called it a night. We received an email from the agent the next day regarding a noise complaint, but hadn’t heard from them since.
It being rather chilly in Canberra in winter we haven’t socialised at all outside until last night, where the four of us cracked open a few bottles of red with a friend at about 9:30, after returning from dinner, to celebrate the engagement of the couple; we were mostly inside, but two of them ducked outside to talk while they had a cigarette occasionally. Eventually we drifted to bed (myself included) except for one half of the couple and their friend, who stayed outside to smoke and catch up (meanwhile, normal Thursday-night rowdiness going on at the pub across the road). Sometime between 10:30 and 11pm, Upstairs Neighbour stuck his head over the balcony, swore at them to shut up or he’d call the cops – who turned up not five minutes later, saying they’d received reports of a noisy and VIOLENT party going on at our flat! Obviously not being the case, the cops left.
This morning we found this note left under the door: https://img.ly/lyyg
Suggestions? Commiserations? What even the heck?
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Commiserations CBR, I have had similar and the police were called.Twice. And not at an unreasonable hour. Totally humiliating.Then got a breach of bylaw letter.I am normally a very quiete person. BUT generally in Strata you can not disrupt the peaceful enjoyment of a lot at ANY TIME. I am an owner but I feel you are are tenant? In my case it was a personal vendetta.
If a tenant you are held by the bylaws and in breaking them you would be breaking the terms of your lease. So there is the possibility that if taken to CTTT you could be evicted. But it could possibly be a long involved process.
I personally have had issues with partying in my plan but it has been habitual offenders,I don’t care if they are renters or owners. I have no issue with a party every now and then, that is life, we celebrate, but not every other weekend.
I think you either keep the entertaining inside as noise outside tends to travel or risk the party poopers taking you down.
Cheers and best of luck CBF
Heavens above, you two, Considerate Band Fair and CBR, you seem so inconsiderate, selfish, self-centred and self-obsessed.
All by-laws, Acts and house rules aside and no matter what the hour, if your disturbs others it’s just not fair.
Can’t you imagine, yourselves, being woken up after being asleep for a couple of hours on an otherwise peaceful night, by the sound of a couple of half-drunk people talking (more loudly than they realize) and the smoke drifting into your bedroom which may only be a few feet from the other home’s balcony?
You don’t think it would worry you? Prepared to consider that your behaviour, whatever it is, may be making others uncomfortable? Upsetting others?
Why not take their complaints on board, say you’re sorry and mean it. And get a grip.
To me, it sounds like your household are in the wrong CBR and should be more considerate of other residents rather than dob them in for ‘hiding a cat’ or whatever.
Say you’re sorry and don’t do it again.
Of course I was not there. I cannot know if these residents were entirely reasonable or louder than they thought. Having said that, I am all too familiar with the letter from an owner who speaks in the plural on behalf of ‘many concerned residents’ while actually only speaking for herself. It is a common affectation to assume the mantle of speaking for all the right-thinking people in the development. I find it quite plausible that CBR has encountered a ‘noise nazi’. While it is true that a tenant is bound by the same Rules (ACT-speak for By-laws) as owners, enforcing those Rules would require an EC to be prepared to take the matter seriously enough to issue a Breach Notice and then be prepared to further act to take the matter to the ACAT (ACT equivalent of CTTT) if they thought you had failed to act on the notice by not ceasing to disturb other residents. Then it would go to a mediated ‘preliminary conference’ before going further. If the police had attended more than once and found a riotous party going on there would be a case to make. If, as CBR says, the police were called several times but found nothing unreasonable there is no case and some evidence that there is no case to be made and the breach notice is unreasonable. I would take note of the days on which the police found nothing going on.
CBR, you sound like a really uncompromising kind of person. Just accept you have upset someone and the best thing is to not be aggro about it and apologise and try and fit in.
I am really, really reluctant to censor or edit anyone’s opinions (apart from a few boring, boring, boring pedantic nitpickers who are thankfully no longer with us). But I’m even more averse to this turning into one of those websites where people point fingers and hurl abuse at each other from behind the Sofa of Anonymity.
So let’s just assume that everybody has a valid point and move on.
I remember renting in an apartment block where every Friday night a woman entertained her friends on her balcony until the wee small hours. The woman had the most irritating and piercing laugh on the planet but I felt I couldn’t complain as I was trying to make a living as a comedy writer at the time and I thought it would be tempting fate if I asked even one person to stop laughing.
I also recall the night at 1 am when the guy downstairs decided to play guitar and sing his repertoire of Neil Young songs. “I am entitled to enjoy my balcony as and when I like,” he shouted back (erroneously) when my wife called down and asked him to give us a break. “And I’m entitled to come down there and shove your twelve-string up your Jacksie,” I responded. Silence. Then “sorry …” in a very small voice. All he could hear was the six-foot-six Scottish voice. Just as well he couldn’t see the five-foot-five body from which it emanated.
But seriously, are there people who are just too sensitive to noise? Are you entitled to sit on your balcony and talk through the night, however hushed your tones are? And is there a compromise?
I find earplugs effective against most noise, apart from the deep throb of bass from someone who has decided to turn their flat into an extension of the club from which they and their friends have just been evicted.
Back to this thread, I just ask everyone to play nice, forget for a moment about by-laws and rules, and consider what you do when a light sleeper and a night owl live in too-close proximityThe opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
Yes, agreed, all have valid points of view. There is absolutely no need for defaming or name calling. So unneccessary. It is all in the perspective and or history of the noisemaker so perhaps one could put themselves in the shoes of the other. We, in apartment living are in close proximity to others, there are valid complaints and there are vexatious complaints. But the thing is that living so close to others we need to have some flexibility and some consideration to all. People do need to live their lives which includes an occasional celebration. When that occurs I like JT have earplugs. If it is a regular thing and a problem it needs addressing formally. I have had many regular noisemakers that needed formal letters. In my own case I had not entertained in my home for 5 years(my housewarming) then had 2 friends for drinks on a long weekend which happened to coincide with a new enemy in my building who decided to call police at 9pm to complain about my talking on the balcony, the police laughed when invited inside but this is sometimes a situation when you have many people in a building, some not seeing eye to eye or perhaps have some personal vendetta. I suspect CBRs situation is similar. If you expect in shared living to have complete silence, well unfortunately you should perhaps be looking at moving to an acreage property where perhaps the noise of the wildlife may bother you. But this comment does not disregard true noise makers. I know them and have heard them. I am not one.
I feel you need to look at sharing space with due consideration, from both sides. But consider this, you buy a great apartment with either city views or a large space balcony or a garden, you turn 30, 40, 50, 60,70, get engaged, married, silver anniversary, die, have a baby, whatever, want to use this great space you bought for this purpouse to enjoy, to celebrate your life and just this one off occasion gets a complaint from a noise nazi, completely destroys your enjoyment of this special time of your life, for what? Cheers and Peace CBF
Where’s the name calling? What exactly should be censored, pray tell? I am allowed to say it sounds like CBR would be an undesirable neighbour, surely.
@Urban Spaceman said:
Where’s the name calling? What exactly should be censored, pray tell? I am allowed to say it sounds like CBR would be an undesirable neighbour, surely.You were and you did and now you’ve done it again. My post was an attempt to head off this kind of BS before it became standard practice … looks like I failed.
[Urban Spaceman has since resigned from the website in protest at my heavy-handed censorship, lack of moral fibre and general incompetence. As Bonzo Dog fans from way back, we’ll miss his excellent name. Let’s cheer ourselves up with a song.]
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
If two early evenings talking on our balcony in the seven months since I moved in makes me a bad neighbour, well, I think I’m okay with that!
What I’m more worried about is this guy making vexatious and exaggerated complaints about noise (which he is clearly not averse to doing, considering what he said to the cops when he called them on us). Does he need to provide evidence of our supposedly egregious noise or can he just make official complaints which then go through to the BC/OC/agent/landlord?
Dear JT, considering your heavy handed censorship, lack of moral fibre and general incompetence, you certainly have a great sense of humour. That song cheered me up no ends!
CBR, I believe he can do both, make the complaints and take them to whoever but eventually if it goes to ACAT, if the rules are the same as in Sydney, I imagine there would need be some proof. Proof though I think may only be a noise diary with time and date of disturbance. This could be sufficient?
Cheers CBF
I have been the victim of a noise complaint whilst at a friends place. There we were, four middle aged people sitting around, drinking wine and reliving our youth singing along to INXS on a cheap mini stereo system. The police came to the door and stiffed their laughter at seeing this “noisy crowd”. There we were, reading glasses perched on the end of our noises, gabardine slacks, orthopedic shoes, obviously not the rowdy group they were expecting. We were not sure whether it was the volume of the music or the fact that none of us could sing that attracted the complaint. We turned off the music and stopped our singing. But we were surprised the police were not called back as we sat and laughed loudly for the next two hours at the thought that we had finally been considered “ragers” and “party animals”.
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