Flat Chat Strata Forum Common Property Current Page

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  • #9525
    Bean16
    Flatchatter

      I own a villa in a complex of two in NSW. A family friend bought the other villa and until recently we managed our property civilly. Years ago I gave verbal permission for the other owner to erect a fence on common property that enabled her to have a larger yard to utilise exclusively. The original lot boundary fence is still in place within the “new” backyard. I have access to the common property area via a key so I can access the meter box. There was never a special resolution passed or a by-law created that states she has exclusive use. It was a verbal agreement. Recently, relations have become acrimonious. I have contacted the Dept of Fair Trade who advised me that she does not legally own the land, that it is still common property but the fence is her property and cannot be touched by me. I am now concerned about entering that area to access my meter box and wish for the common property to be returned to its original state. Obviously I doubt she will not agree to this nor to the destruction of sheds etc that have been erected within the common property. What options do I have available to me? We have never discussed by-laws or put agreements in writing. Due to recent events I will be conducting everything by the book from this point forward. I am just worried about what I have agreed to in the past and whether anything can be done retrospectively. Does she have any rights to keep this fence in place?

      Thanks for your help!

    Viewing 9 replies - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)
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    • #21657
      DaveB
      Flatchatter

        As the the old saying goes, a verbal agreement isn’t worth the paper it is not written on.  A lot of problems arise in Strata Schemes when informal arrangements are made.  I’d agree with Fair Trading that the common property remains, and that you shouldn’t touch the fence.  Your wish for the common property to return to its original use seems quite reasonable.  The options available to you are set out in the dispute resolution procedure available from Fair Trading.  The first step is mediation, if that is unsuccessful you can apply for adjudication of the matter.   Just do a search for strata dispute resolution and you should find the relevant fact sheet.

        There are modest fees for the process, which should not deter you from taking this action.  Good luck!

        #21661
        kiwipaul
        Flatchatter

          Yes I agree with DaveB an informal arrangement is meaningless but to get the common property back you need to go to conciliation and then adjudication (total cost approx $140) but your case is rock solid and I cannot see how you could loose.

          #21662
          Whale
          Flatchatter

            Bean16 – Whilst I agree that you should take the matter to mediation using THIS form, IF no agreement can be reached, then I’m not so confident about the NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal (NCAT) ruling in your favour in circumstances where your argument is that you agreed to an informal arrangement when you and the adjoining Owner were on good terms, and where after some years you want that formally undone because that relationship has deteriorated. That’s how a Tribunal Member may see it!

            The former Consumer, Trader, and Tenancy Tribunal was a strange place where Members often brought down some decisions that I personally found equally strange (or at least illogical), and I’m not so sure that the metamorphosis of that organisation into the NCAT has changed all that very much; different horse same jockeys.

            I’m inclined to suggest an additional step in the process, but in order for that to work I first need to know the units of entitlement applicable to each of the Lots in your Plan and whether you have a Strata Manager. Could you please provide that detail?

            #21668
            Bean16
            Flatchatter
            Chat-starter

              Thank you for all of your advice. There are only two villas and we each have a unit of entitlement of 10/20…so we are 50/50 on decisions. We don’t have a strata manager and all decisions we have made over the years have been informal and verbal. The reason we are currently not on speaking terms is due to a parking issue whereby the owners husband had been parking on common property grass for the last 4 years, but when my partner moved in a month ago and started parking parallel to the husbands car, we were told she didn’t want him parking on the grass. Her husband then began to block my partners car from gaining access to the area, whilst he remained parking on the common property. Last week, her father blocked access to our garage with his car and then verbally assaulted and intimidated my partner, as he had to park on council verge due to the blockage. The only reason I wish to know my rights in regards to the fence is that we fear going to the meter box due to the verbal assault and intimidation. My partner is an electrician and wishes to check to see if any extra power points have been wired to my electricity (her father is an electrician also and he did put one in but I’m not sure whose power supply it’s feeding off). It is a highly uncomfortable situation as you can imagine. I don’t wish to feel uncomfortable accessing something which is wholly within my rights to do so. I also don’t want this to happen with possible future owners if she sells. In regards to compliance notices regarding breaching by-laws on parking on common property…how does a two villa strata go about issuing compliance notices, obviously without both parties agreeing to issue one? Is there any detailed information on how a two strata, equal unit of entitlement development can manage disputes without resorting to mediation every time there is an issue? Thanks so much for your help!!

              #21670
              Whale
              Flatchatter

                Thanks for providing that additional detail, but regrettably it negates one of the other options that I was contemplating.

                Please don’t take this as a criticism, but managing disputes in two-unit Strata Schemes is difficult enough particularly when the units of entitlement are equal, but doing things on the basis of a wink and a nod can be a recipe for disasters; as you’ve now found out.

                Anyway, that doesn’t really help.

                So in preparation for Mediation, if you haven’t done so already, you should put pen to paper and as politely as you can in the circumstances, advise your neighbour that you have just become aware that the informal arrangement previously agreed to whereby they have the use of an area of Common Property contravenes various provisions of NSW Strata Schemes Management Act (FYI both Division 4 and Sections 65A & B; but I wouldn’t mention that), and that consequently you are of the opinion that the situation needs to be corrected without delay by them removing the fence and everything else that they’ve placed on that Common Property.

                Invite them to respond to your request within say 30 days.

                If your neighbours respond in writing or otherwise, you need to keep that response and/or notes of who said what and when, and if they don’t respond cooperatively or at all within the timeframe that you’ve suggested, then your openly polite approach and detailed notes can only assist you in the formal Mediation process, which by the way you should also politely inform them about if you have to go that way.

                It’s good that it’s going to be by-the-book from now, lesson learnt, and just so you know what’s in the book (even for 2-Unit Schemes), have a careful read through THIS to see what else the two of you may have slipped-up on.

                #21671
                kiwipaul
                Flatchatter

                  I agree with Whale be reasonable and polite but keep a detailed record of breaches of any bylaw especially if they block you in or park on common property and take photos of their transgressions. The more they break the rules the better your chance of winning especially if you appear to be the reasonable one.

                  The thing about adjudication is you can list numerous breaches for the same price and get a ruling on each.

                  If he continues to block your access you can short circuit the conciliation process by obtaining an Interim Order to stop him blocking your access here is the details from the act:

                  124 Applications for order to be made to Registrar
                  An application for an order under this Chapter must be made to the Registrar and must:
                  (a) be in writing stating the grounds on which it is based, and
                  (b) specify the order sought, and
                  (c) be accompanied by the prescribed fee.

                  125 Registrar to be satisfied that mediation has been attempted before
                  accepting application
                  (1) The Registrar must not accept an application for an order under this
                  Chapter unless:
                  (a) mediation under Part 2 or otherwise has been attempted but was unsuccessful, or
                  (b) the Registrar considers that mediation is unnecessary or inappropriate in the circumstances, or
                  (c) the application is for any of the following:
                  (i) an order under section 162 for the appointment of a strata
                  managing agent,
                  (ii) an interim order under section 170 or stay of the operation
                  of an order under section 180

                  and

                  170 Interim orders
                  (1) If an applicant for an order under another provision of this Chapter requests the making of an interim order and an Adjudicator is satisfied
                  on reasonable grounds that urgent considerations justify the making of
                  the order, the Adjudicator may:
                  (a) make any order that could otherwise be made by the Adjudicator
                  or the Tribunal, and

                  The interim order would just be to stop him blocking you in whilst you pursued him for this and other breaches because conciliation and adjudication can take 6 months.

                  #21673
                  Bean16
                  Flatchatter
                  Chat-starter

                    Wow, thank you all for your advice. I have been diligently taking photo’s of errant parking and keeping copies of any letters sent. Hopefully I won’t have to utilise any of the aforementioned. If I don’t receive a response from my neighbours to my polite letter by the date requested, I will pop a copy into their mailbox of the Strata Living Guide and a copy of the Strata Schemes Management Regulation 2010 model by-laws, with the relevant by-laws highlighted and a cover note requesting that from this point forward, we all adhere to the by-laws. Hopefully this will see the cessation of inequities in parking. As for the fence on common ground issue, I’m inclined to sit on this one for a while (pardon the pun!) until parking matters subside (I’m an optimist!)…If they become reasonable and fair then I see no reason to demolish it if verbal assault and intimidation is no longer a threat. I would like to see it demolished prior to a new owner though. Do you think this is the right way to go for now? I don’t wish to inflame things further, as once I go down the road of notices to comply, interim orders and mediation etc I fear the animosity will get worse and I will no longer want to be in my home. I am looking into strata managers and/or Strata IT programs to better manage our lot and to alleviate any further problems we may have. Thanks again for all of your help!

                    #21674
                    scotlandx
                    Strataguru

                      If you ultimately want to have the fence demolished, then not saying anything about it until some later date is not going to help your case.  As Whale has pointed out, doing things on a wink and a nod can have very bad consequences down the line.

                      Going back to your original post, the DOFT is correct, the land is not theirs but in giving them permission to build the fence you have effectively given them control of that land, and a bigger backyard, for nothing.  A subsequent purchaser of your lot (or theirs for that matter) might not be very happy about that.

                      The reason why a subsequent purchaser of their lot might not be happy is because while the fence is there they have appropriated common property with nothing legal to back it up, and if I were looking at buying the lot that would be an issue.

                      I appreciate you don’t want things to descend into warfare, but you need to sort it out, both the parking issue and the bigger issue of the fence.

                      #21683
                      Bean16
                      Flatchatter
                      Chat-starter

                        Thank you! Yes when you put it that way I can see that this whole situation should be resolved all at once. We’re already in the poo…might as well get deeper and resolve it once and for all. I’m in the process of looking for specialist strata lawyers to set up the strata scheme properly and at this time I am hoping we can resolve the fence and parking issue via this means. If not, then mediation etc will be necessary and I will take the steps that you have all outlined. Thank you for your help yet again. I really appreciate your advice.

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