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Hello everyone! I hope that someone can advise how to handle the following unpleasant situation I was dragged into. About 5 months ago I was contacted by the Strata Manager who wanted to let me know that there is a leak in the kitchen ceiling in the unit below me and that the plumbers contracted by the strata will come in to check the pipes in my kitchen. They did and found nothing was wrong. A week later I was told they need to come back as they leak downstairs continued. Another plumber from the same company came and apparantelly found a small hole in the pipe under my sink which he repaired·. A month or so later I was called again to be told they need to come back a third time as the leak downstairs was still going. This time they did preassure testing on the pipies and declared them fine but decided the leak in the downstairs kitchen was caused by a fault in my bathroom. A couple of weeks later they returned and drilled a wall in the tiles around my bath tub as apparantelly the bath lip seal was faulty and they could see water dripping down the wall beneath the bath lip. Based on that, I was told thry need to come back and remove tiles above the bath tub to repair the faulty bath lip seal and waterproof the shower area. The strata manager advised I have the right to engage my own tiler to do this whoch is what I did as the quote from the strata plumbers was obsenely expensive. The licensed tradesman I hired sealed the bath lip and waterproofed and provided a 7 year warranty on his work and materials. It’s been a month since he did the work and today I was told by the Strata Manager that leak downstars continues. Clearly this means that the advise of the Strata plumbers I acted on was wrong, right? Is it the wners Corporation responsibility to cover the cost of the strata plumbers doing investigations in my u it ? i have been made to pay their last bill as apparantelly they wete so certain that the leak was caused by my allegedly faulty bath lip which has now been proved to be wrong. The Strata Manager does not want to committ to refunding me. Icontacted the strata plumbers about it but of course they haven’t responded to me yet. What recourse do I have under law?I am planning to submit a claim to either the Executive Committee or the strata plumbers insurance company to be reimbursed for the expenses I incurred in carrying out unnecessery repairs due to the incorrect advise given to meby the strata plumbers. Please advise if this course of action makes sense and whise responsibikty it is to cover the costs. Many thanks. And apologies for the mile-long post:-))
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Hi whoisit,
If you are in an old building pre 1974 you do not have to pay for the works if there is a leak from your unit into another unit.
I recently experienced a similar problem, though the water may have been coming from my apartment. I was ordered by strata manager to waterproof my shower and bath and then forward them the invoice as proof that I did it. I did it myself, HOWEVER, it was never my responsibility. I did it because they bully me all the time (because I voted against them once!) over trivial issues and it seemed a better option than having my bathroom pulled apart, even if it was at OC expense.
The strata manager tried to trick me into financing the works (they have lied to me so many times that now I check rules on EVERYTHING). Buildings that were constructed pre 1974 have different rulings as follows:
Any water proofing in the shower recess is common property the repair and maintenance is the responsibility of the owners corporation.
Tiles on a boundary wall are common property their repair and maintenance is the responsibility of the owners corporation.
If your building is that old then you will definitely have a case for OC paying and if this is the case, report them for fraud and misleading information.
Whoisit – so as not to confuse you and to allow posters to provide considered replies, could you please advise:
1) The year in which your building was constructed;
2) Whether your bathroom is original (i.e. un-renovated since the completion of the building);
3) Whether the wall adjoining the bathtub is internal to your Unit or on a perimeter wall;
4) If the leakage into the Unit below continues.
The March has finished; lest we forget!
Your Plan is post 1974, so we can ignore one complication at least.
Regrettably, like any legislation, the NSW Strata Schemes Management Act contains few specifics and rather provides the principles upon which Strata Schemes are managed, and in your case those principles dictate that Owners Corporations (O/C) are responsible for the maintenance and repair of Common Property and Owners are responsible for that with regard to the area within their Lots.
So in your situation, an accepted interpretation of those principles (not just mine) would make the rectification of the leakage in the small pipe under the sink your responsibility as it’s within the cubic air-space of your Lot, and any confirmed leakage from the bath lip similarly your responsibility as, albeit original, the lip and any waterproofing behind it is against an internal wall of your Lot as opposed to a common wall.
However (there’s always at least one of those in Strata) in situations such as yours where water leakage from your Lot is affecting the Common Property and/or another Lot and it’s not from an obvious source within your Lot (such as a dishwasher hose) then it is customary, and indeed in the O/C’s best interests in terms of it preserving the integrity of its Common Property, for it to do whatever is necessary to determine the source of the leakage and to make necessary repairs, and then only if it’s confirmed as being from Lot property to at its discretion pass its costs of making the repairs to the Lot Owner. It’s much less common, and as you’ve found out messier, for O/Cs to do as yours has done by determining the source (reportedly) of the leakage and then encouraging the Lot Owner to directly arrange and pay for those repairs, especially with a different tradseperson.
Again in your situation, any damage that’s caused to your Lot (such as to wall tiles) as a consequence of the O/C determining the source of the leakage must be rectified by it; not by you as the Lot Owner.
It seems that your O/C was heading down the correct path until, albeit on the advice of its plumber, it determined that the source of the leakage was from within your Lot and you, with the benefit of hindsight, made the mistake to at that early stage engage your own tradespeople to repair the reported leak around the bath lip, which I’m guessing occurs because your shower is above the bath (?).
All of this merely confirms why you’re now in the situation you’re in; so what to do now?
I’d suggest you don’t contact the strata plumbers or their insurers (you didn’t engage them), but instead advise your O/C in writing that you’ve to date acted in good faith by accepting its advice concerning the source of the leakage, by accepting its offer to permit you to directly engage the services of tradespeople to rectify a problem that it had advised you was the source of the leakage, but that due to your concerns about the possible impacts of the on-going water leakage upon your Lot, the Lot below, and the Common Property from now on you’ll be relying upon the O/C to conduct whatever further investigations it deems necessary to properly identify the source of the leakage, and to permanently rectify that and all existing and any future damage that’s consequentially caused to your Lot.
I’d further advise your O/C that should it now determine that the source of the leakage is from anywhere other than the bath lip as it previously advised or if its investigative works adversely affect the works / warranty that you’ve paid for, then any further costs that it may resolve to pass-on to you will be adjusted before any payment to account for the amounts that you’ve already expended on the basis of that advice.
Probably not entirely the answer that you wanted, but at least you won’t be throwing any more money at a problem that your O/C should in the circumstances be chasing-down.
As ever, Whale provides a comprehensive response.
I would just like to add that some firms including our good friends at Integrated (see ad above) provide a ‘forensic’ investigation service. Which means that rather than trial and error, the stick probes and cameras where mere mortals can see and detect the source of the problem that way. I would be pointing the EC in their direction before you end up tearing your bathroom apart in search of a problem that might not even be there.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
Your observations about the impacts of the leak possibly being exacerbated by the tenant below not promptly reporting merely strengthens your case for the Owners Corporation (O/C) to properly investigate and rectify the problem before its impacts on the Common Property, for which its responsible, worsen.
A couple of further observations.
An absence of O/C funds is something that’s within your control by raising it at the next AGM (even though Owners never want to increase levies), and whilst the O/C could with the support of ≥75% of Owners at an AGM create a Special By-Law (SBL) to limit its responsibility for maintain and repair Common Property, on the basis of its current approach to the leakage problem, clearly it has no such SBL; so don’t worry about By-Laws!
Inconvenience to you, further efforts by your O/C to shift responsibility to you, and ongoing delays can IF THEY CONTINUE be addressed by a process conducted by the NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal and commencing with mediation that can be initiated by you with the NSW Office of Fair Trading.
OK…… I know that probably sounds like heavy stuff, but beleve me it’s not – particularly with the mediation process which can merely by its suggestion ecourage the Parties (in your case your O/C) to compromise.
Have a look HERE for details of the whole process and Application Forms.
Hi All,
Reading posts and noticed the only reference I think to a possible leak in the dishwasher and or hose is in a post from Whale. Am I wrong?
Whoisit did you have someone investigate your dishwasher? I read in your post all pipes in kitchen were checked but what about the dishwasher?
The leak I believe is from your kitchen into a kitchen below?
I had sometime ago a neighbour below me having water leaking into their kitchen cupboards. After investigation the dishwasher had a hole in the outflow pipe where it had been squashed against the wall causing the pipe to crinkle and leak, although a small amount, over time it sits somewhere and then drips into the property below.
Cheers
CBF
In very simple terms, it is the Owners Corp’s responsibility to establish the source of the leask, fix the leak and fix anything they damage during the course of fixing the leak.
If, in the course of this process they discover that you were responsible for the leak then they can shift the appropriate costs to you by sending you a bill.
They should not be ordering you to identify the source of the leak and should be grateful that you are cooperating to the extent that you have.
They are making assumptions that they are not entitled to make and if I were you I wouldn’t let anyone near my tiles until I had a written statement from them accepting that
- they don’t know the source of the leak
- they will repair it and anything damaged in the course of the repair if they find it is a common property issue (or caused by another lot).
- This would include returning the bathroom to an acceptable condition with matching tiles, if need be.
Co-operation is admirable but being bullied by a misinformed EC secretary or strata manager is a whole other thing.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
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