› Flat Chat Strata Forum › Parking Peeves › Current Page
- This topic has 15 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 9 months ago by .
-
CreatorTopic
-
29/03/2013 at 12:15 pm #8767
Ok i’ve looked through the forums and i could find anything that applied to my situation, despite parking being a big issue almost everywhere. Here is my situation:
I moved to a block of strata controlled apartments a few weeks ago as a tenant (not an owner). There are 3 car park areas on the premises – 1 either side of the building are for residences and the middle parking area is for vistors – although none of the areas are signed.
I initially got a letter on my car (parked in a resident parking area) as no-one notified the strata committee of the new numberplate as being a resident. After that was cleared up, a couple of weeks later the owner of the apartment received another letter saying that my car had been in the resident parking area “for the past 10 days and appears to have only moved briefly twice in that period”. the letter then goes on to explain that in their opinion the vehicle is not being used on an acceptable basis as the car park isn’t to be used as a semi permanent storage space.
all the committee members signed the letter.
To me this seems a little psychotic to raise an issue about a car only being used a couple times a week – but hey i’m new to strata controlled apartment blocks.
So i guess my question if the above happens to be a legit complaint, is what’s defined a semi permanent storage? I drive the car 1-2 times a week, sometimes more. Should there be appropriate signs pointing out a time limit on the car parks if there is an issue of long term vehicles? This entire dispute is in the resident parking area not the vistor parking..
thanks
-
CreatorTopic
-
AuthorReplies
-
29/03/2013 at 11:29 pm #18159
This seems bizarre but I have a few questions.
1. Is the car space specific to your unit, or is residents’ parking ‘scramble’ parking on a first come, first served basis.
2. What does it say in your by-laws about parking and any rules or restrictions there may be?
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
30/03/2013 at 1:29 pm #18161its a first come first serve non numbered style carpark as all the units have a garage space also.
i’ve requested that they send me the bylaws specifically the section dealing with parking and the committees official definition of semi permant storage.
will post up the bylaw parking rules when I get them
30/03/2013 at 9:59 pm #18164Still not enough information.
OK, every lot has its own garage. How many lots in your scheme?
What’s in your garage? Is it filled with junk (sorry, good stuff)?
Or did you rent a unit with only one garage when you have more than one car?
If you live with others (wife, girlfriend, flatmate etc) you wouldn’t use all the hot water just because you got up early and had a “first come first served” shower.
The same principle applies to limited resident parking spots in a strata block.
And that principle is called “consideration for others”.
“Semi-permanent storage” is probably just the EC’s way of telling you to “stop hogging” one of the only two resident overflow parking spots.
31/03/2013 at 11:38 am #18171every unit has its own garage, the resident parking areas are the overflow spots.
Think you’re missing the point kanagroo. Its about how often the car is getting used. If i drove it everyday but came home at say 3pm and parked in the exact same spot it wouldn’t be an issue and wouldn’t be considered “hogging” a park, but as the car sits there during the day when most of the spots are empty it is an issue.
Also read the rest of my posts, i’ve already said i was awaiting more information and explained the number of parking areas. There are several spots in each area – its not uncommon to come home after 5 and still find a park. Yet my car has to sit on the street.
31/03/2013 at 7:51 pm #18178Until we know what the bylaws say we cannot advise you. The SM or OC cannot demand that you obey their rules unless they are included in the bylaws. Add hoc rules given to you by the SM or others are unenforceable unless they are based on the bylaws of the complex.
Tell them that you want a copy of the relevant bylaw that applies and you will comply once you have received it, otherwise continue leaving your car in the parking areas until you receive it, and it clearly indicates you are in the wrong. Your Property manager should have given you a copy of the bylaws before you signed the tenancy agreement as one of the conditions of the contract is that you comply with the bylaws.
They cannot apply the bylaws selectively (without a good reason), so if others are breaking the rules you are entitled to as well. Take note or photo (rego and time) of other residents leaving vehicles in the parking areas to give you ammunition if this goes further.
You yourself can obtain a copy of the bylaws for about $20 by just going to the NSW dept of lands.
02/04/2013 at 10:52 pm #18204Kiwipaul, I disagree with your advice in this instance as it doesn’t seem to match your usual wisdom.
First, I would not advise a new tenant to continue breaching a (possible) By-Law until the EC/OC/SM provides written evidence of it. As you have rightly said, it’s not their responsiblity. It’s the landlord’s or Leasing Agent’s responsibility, so Plasteck’s “people” are already on shaky ground. I would advise him to comply with what he has been told is the “rule” until his own people provide him a copy of the By-Laws.
Second, I would never advise a resident that “if others are breaking the rules you are entitled to as well”. Anyone who uses that excuse to me gets the response that it’s everyone’s duty to obey the By-Laws and it’s everone’s duty to uphold the By-Laws, so they have failed on two counts.
Third, one of the problems with the NSW Standard Residential Agreement (the Lease) is that it does NOT contain a clause requiring compliance with the By-Laws. Section 44(2) of the Act imposes a covenant on Lessees to obey the By-Laws, but what tenant ever reads the Act?
Plasteck, by all means post a copy of the By-Laws, but I don’t think the answer lies therein.
For instance, the model Pets By-Law requires that the OC “not unreasonably refuse permission” but no-one defines “unreasonableness”. So I’m not too hopeful that you will find a definition of “semi-permanent storage” in your By-Laws.
Strata living is not just governed by the Act and your scheme’s By-Laws but by common sense, consideration for others and the way your individual scheme “works” on a day-to-day basis. A few weeks observation is probably insufficient to correctly deduce that.
Finally, your description of your scheme sounds like utopia. Every lot has its own garage and there are three additional parking “areas” (not “spaces”, as I originally misunderstood). The spaces in these areas are so underutilised that you can drive off to work and have a reasonable expectation of finding the very same spot or another one vacant when you come home. And “during the day … most of the spots are empty”.
That description doesn’t gel with my knowledge of greedy strata developers, minimalistic Council requirements and (Sydney) land values.
Neither does it gel with your EC/OC/SM’s speedy response to finding an unknown car parked in the resident overflow area.
I note that you didn’t answer any of my previous questions, but I think some numerical information would be more helpful than a copy of the By-Laws.
03/04/2013 at 9:24 am #18207This isunusual. If there are designated parking areas for the use of residents the the OC should politely inform you of this. But I would find it hard to imagine calling parking a car in a parking area “storage”. And if the OC advises that residents are not to use the car parking fthe ongoing parking purposes or for everyday parking I would watch for those who do come home from work and park there on a regular basis because perhaps they arI then in breach.
Unless the by laws state that a resident can only use it once in a 24 hour period i can’t see how they can tell you to park elsewhere just because you don’t use your car every single day.
03/04/2013 at 9:39 am #18209@Kangaroo said:
Plasteck, by all means post a copy of the By-Laws, but I don’t think the answer lies therein.
The bylaws state the rules that govern the complex, if the ans doesn’t lie in the bylaws where does it lie.
Also if Plasteck complies with the EC they have no incentive to provide any information and they can just let the matter drop. Asking for a copy of the bylaws is quite reasonable if they want the tenant to comply with them. If he continues parking within the complex the next step is to issue Plasteck with a Notice To Comply which has to contain the bylaw he is breaking. Then he can comply and no further action is taken.
A lot of Strata have 2 sets of rules one for the owner / occupier and one for the tenants and I’m totally against discrimination and their should be one set of rules for all that should rigorously enforced against all.
I’d love to read the bylaw that this strata is trying to get Plasteck to comply with.
Section 35 of the tenancy agreement requires the landlord to provide a copy of the Bylaws within 7 but doesn’t require the tenant to comply with them which to me is weird.
So how do you take action against tenants when they haven’t agreed to abide by the bylaws
03/04/2013 at 12:01 pm #18210I haven’t figured out how to do partial quotes yet, so I’ll just answer in plain text.
Because of the covenant in the Act, action can be taken against tenants in the same way as against owners, namely by the issue of a Notice To Comply stating the By-Law which has allegedly been breached.
It would be far better if the standard lease did contain a clause requiring compliance with the By-Laws and a copy the current By-Laws was attached to the lease, but I note that the Minister hasn’t indicated that changes to the Residential Tenancy Act will be made consistent with upcoming changes to the Strata Schemes Management Act.
The EC/OC/SM will usually supply a copy of the By-Laws if asked, but if a new resident (owner or tenant) demands a copy from those who don’t actually have the legal responsibility to provide it when his own “side” has failed in their legal responsibility to do so, and threatens to continue behaviour which he has already been told (correctly or incorrectly) is “wrong”, then that will just get up the EC/OC/SM’s nose.
Kiwipaul, I’ve noticed from your other posts that you’re very much a “letter of the law” man. If it’s the law (or By-Law) then it’s to be obeyed. If it’s not law, you have the freedom to do what you like.
I’m saying not every possible scenario or way of breaching a scenario can be covered with By-Laws. Harmonious living in a strata scheme also depends on civility, manners and consideration for other people.
Plasteck says this is about “how often the car is used” and he’s probably right.
Let’s do some mathematics even though we have no numbers.
If there were enough resident overflow spaces for every lot to have one, then the developer would have allocated them out so he could get more money. Conclusion, there are less spaces than one per lot. Implication, they are to be shared by residents. Enter the concept of “hogging”, another word which is subjective and impossible to define in By-Laws.
Right or wrong, Plasteck has been perceived to be “hogging”.
One thing he could do would be to move his car every day to a visibly different spot. That’s if vacant parking spots are as abundant as he says. From the EC/OC/SM’s reaction, I suspect they’re not.
16/04/2013 at 7:32 pm #18278plasteck
This is an interesting situation.
1. Ask your managing agent to source a copy of the buildings by-laws. This is their responsibility and should have been provided in 7 days of you signing the lease (
2. The strata plan will determine whether the parking you are using is considered visitor parking or ‘scramble’ parking as you are arguing it is. Again your managing agent can source this information from the OC / strata manager. I suspect from what you have told us here that all these parks are actually ‘visitor parks’.
Now IMO you are only paying for the parking that is on your lot, regardless of whether you are an owner or a tenant. You do not have the right to exclusive use of common property which is what you are doing in parking your second car in one of these parking spaces as your parking requirements exceed the capacity of your lot. You wouldn’t live somewhere that did not have enough bedrooms for your requirements, yet it is considered by some, including you, to have more cars than you can park appropriately within the property that you are paying for to be OK and inflict your parking problems on your neighbours.
I think you should make alternative arrangements, such as leasing a garage off another resident, for your second vehicle.
alley cat
18/04/2013 at 10:26 am #18283@alley cat said:
plasteckI think you should make alternative arrangements, such as leasing a garage off another resident, for your second vehicle.
alley cat
But initially Plasteck got a letter telling him to stop parking because he wasn’t a resident and that only got resolved when he informed them he was a resident and supplied his rego.
So these bays cannot be visitor bays and so he has every right to continue parking their on a first come first serve basis.
If they want him to stop parking their they need to provide a copy of the bylaw explaining what he is doing wrong and then he can comply. because they won’t supply a copy of the bylaw makes me suspect it dosn’t exist and so he is doing nothing wrong.
10/05/2013 at 2:35 pm #18434I think we all know why the EC will not send a copy of the relevant by-law. There is none.
@Kangaroo – Yes the leasing agent must provide a copy of the by-laws to the leasee and often these are attached to the back of the lease. This will be a moot point though if, as I suspect, there is no by-law covering this issue. If there is a relevant by-law, any letter sent to the tenant should be explain in what way they have breached this by-law…
@plasteck – good on you for only using your car once or twice a week and not adding to the ever increasing traffic and pollution problems.10/05/2013 at 4:38 pm #18438We have a similar problem with our strata complex. 4 visistor spaces in a complex of 15. All with double garages – but wait for it – some residents have decidd to use their garages for storage (not cars) OR turned them into another room – complete with walls and no approval to do so
So, they park their cars in the visitor spots, often for days at a time. There is not much we can do. Strata sends a letter every now and then, they stop doing it for a few weeks and then start again.
A horrible way to deal with it is to let their tyres down, scrath their car and then hopefully they won’t do it again!!!
11/05/2013 at 9:03 am #18444@kittycat said:
We have a similar problem with our strata complex … there is not much we can do. Strata sends a letter every now and then, they stop doing it for a few weeks and then start again.A horrible way to deal with it is to let their tyres down, scratch their car and then hopefully they won’t do it again!!!
For repeat offenders there is a lot you can do. Notices To Comply apply to the NEXT offence, rather than the last one, so they can be fined.
Repeat offenders could have a CTTT order taken against them, where the maximum fine goes up fro $550 to $5500. You could also use the threat of an order requiring them to use the garage for its purpose.
Finally, and I hate to get all StrataNanny about this, but scratching cars, letting down tyres, and putting nails in them are all criminal damage. If the person drives off with a flat tyre, has an accident and hurts themselves or, even worse, someone else – you are in a life-changing world of pain when one of your neighbours dobs you in.
Have a look at this page to see the legal avenues for rubbing these problems out. All you have to do is put one owner through the mill and everyone else will soon get the message.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
11/05/2013 at 11:31 am #18448@kittycat said:
We have a similar problem with our strata complex. 4 visistor spaces in a complex of 15. All with double garages – but wait for it – some residents have decidd to use their garages for storage (not cars) OR turned them into another room – complete with walls and no approval to do soTotally agree with Jimmy, get the EC to issue NTC to all offenders, you can also let those know that have made changes to the garage without approval that if they don’t stop parking in visitor bays you will also also start proceeding to have the garages returned to garages.
Even if the EC refuses to take action individual residents (Tenants & owners) can start proceeding at CTTT to get the bylaws enforced.
Residents have to take action to enforce the bylaws unless they want a free for all.
-
AuthorReplies
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
› Flat Chat Strata Forum › Parking Peeves › Current Page