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  • #8864
    Jimmy-T
    Keymaster

      The war against party flats took a turn for the worse last week when the Supreme Court in Melbourne overturned a decision by the Victorian Buildings Appeals Board that short-term rentals were illegal in residential apartment blocks.

      The BAB ruling had said that if you were going to rent out apartments like hotel rooms, you needed the same levels of fire safety precaution and signage as hotels.

      But then the manager of several units in a  building in Docklands (dubbed ‘Partygate’ by residents sick of the weekend invasions of drunks) appealed, saying that the BAB ruling was invalid.

      Despite arguments from Melbourne city planners, the court agreed, overturning the ruling.

      Here in NSW, the lobbyists for the short-term rental industry will claim this as a victory for traditional Australian family holidays.

      However, long-suffering neighbours know it’s all too often really about marauding schoolies, backpackers, football fans and bucks nights invading their homes.

      Sydney City Council refers to agents revving up owners to turn their residential flats into virtual hotels as “re-zoning by stealth”.  Pity the poor long-term resident who finds him or herself outvoted by absentee landlords lured by the fast-buck  agents promoting illegal rentals.

      It’s back to the drawing board for Melbourne’s city council while in Brisbane apparently it’s got so bad that some owner-residents are being driven out of their buildings by on-site managers irritated that there are flats in their buildings from which they don’t earn any rental commission

      How selfish of us to want peace and quiet in our homes when there are owners who need to make a quick buck from their investment units.

      As we have said many times in this column, if there is a such a screaming need for short-term accommodation in our cities, then let the developers build specific buildings for the fly-by-night tenants.

      Short-term lets are warts on the face of residential apartment living and it’s time the government and local councils got together with the CTTT and burned them off.

      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
    Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)
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    • #18650

      Jimmy T should provide some evidence behind his opinions. The vast majority of short term accommodation apartments are well run and follow the HRIA ‘Code of Conduct”. The operator who caused the problem in Watergate has closed their business. The one operator who went to the Supreme Court did so to protect, tourism, accommodation choice, property rights and an industry that provides beds for over 30% of the travellers in Australia.
      If you have one bad legal firm, you don’t close them all down.

      #18656

      Regardless of the state, it seems to be patently unfair to paint everyone with the same brush (ie. troublemakers). In our case a vexatious complaint to the body corporate in a Surry Hills (Sydney) apartment, put the kibosh on a perfectly reasonable use of a mostly empty apartment. The people were always vetted and only a couple of occasions out of many stays was there any audible noise (very low level). There are leaseholders in the same building who are happy to party on into the night without any comeback from the strata or body corporate. Ironic that Fairfax is the owner of Stayz.com .. one of the very organisations in the marketplace that make a buck out of this concept. The can or worms this has created won’t end easily. And I had to laugh when reading in News pres last week that i can “long term” lease to call girls (2 maximum!) with council blessing .. what a joke. Yell

      #18658
      Philip Williams
      Flatchatter

        Should have never happened. Parochial State based rulings have no place in the nationally harmonised Fire Safety legislation. I suggest the State of Vic must defend the authority of the Fire Safety legislation by appeal to High Court or become a potential defendant in the first (and subsequent deaths) that occur from failure to observe overarching Fire Safety legislation.

        #18660
        Millie
        Flatchatter

          People wanting to stay short-term for a football, pre-/post-cruise, bucks/hens, 18th/21st/40th/50th birthday et al weekend, or a short business stay, should stay in properties specifically designed for such purposes and with staff available to cater for their needs and control unruly visitors.  Is there nowhere where resident owners and tenants can enjoy the communities in which they live?

          Here’s a quote from one of the country’s major law firms – ‘bring it on’, I say:

           

          “In the parallel strata reform process, we will continue to investigate how councils could be mandated to enforce residential planning, zoning or approval to prevent unauthorised short-term commercial letting of accommodation.  The proliferation of illegal serviced apartments is a huge problem… and there remains insufficient scrutiny of this damaging practice.”  

          #18661
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster
          Chat-starter

            Having started this particular fight, I just wanted to make a couple of observations.  Firstly they are plenty of circumstances in which short term lets work well – I’m thinking of holiday flats where the regular summer visitors are known to the permanent residents.  Then there are increasingly popular systems like Air B&B where the accommodation is rated (as in Tripadvisor.com) but the guest is also reviewed by previous landlords.

            The problem isn’t that strata control freaks want blanket laws that prevent the slightest infraction by landlords and their tenants, it’s that the absence of such draconian measures allows opportunist parasites to make their inflated rents at everyone else’s expense.

            The answer is to make landlords responsible for the behaviour of their tenants, past present and future (and this applies to long-term tenants too).  If there are no problems with a let, then there is no problem.  

            However, if a landlord allows tenants to cause disruption in a building, owners should be able to fast-track an order at the CTTT telling them to make sure this doesn’t happen again or face fines of up to $5500.  And if they persist, then the CTTT should be able to firstly fine them and then  order that apartment may not be let to anyone under any circumstances for the next, say, two years.

            This will force the careless landlord to sell the apartment to owner-occupiers.  Problem solved.

            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
            #18670
            Millie
            Flatchatter

              A quick note to an earlier post:  If two ‘call girls’ want to live in a block they should have the same rights as two lawyers renting an apartment.  If the girls want to turn their residential apartment into a brothel – a commercial use – then Council should/would have something to say about it.

              If residential apartment blocks are used for commercial short-term, hotel-style lettings, then all the legitimate hotels/serviced apartment operators should be mightely agrieved – they pay for and have far superior fire/safety systems installed and they pay much, much higher insurance premiums.  

              The short-term operators in residential properties are running shonky businesses, lot owners’ insurance is VOID and lot owners have UNLIMITED liability.  Consider that, and ask:  is short-term letting realy worth risking the financial viability of all lot owners? 

              #18676
              Millie
              Flatchatter

                Sorry, I didn’t finish:  in a block which is zoned ‘permanent residential accommodation only’, if your two ‘girls’ use their apartment as a brothel and your two solicitors rent out their apartment for overnight/weekend footy/cruise/bucks/hens/birthday/schoolies parties, I don’t see any difference.  These are commercial uses and are contrary to the use approved, plus a nightmare for residents who just want to enjoy their homes and the community in which they live.

                #18740

                I was disappointed to read the comments about short term letting. There are many areas in NSW where apartment buildings have been built to provide for people who want to holiday on the coast or elsewhere but don’t want to stay in a motel or holiday house (another issue). Many owners want the opportunity to have a holiday residence which they can let when they are not using it, to pay the bills. We own this kind of unit which has been operating successfully for quite a few years. The economy of the town would be seriously damaged without this kind of residential accommodation. Far from the short term rentals being a problem in our building, a significant number of units have subsequently been taken up as long term rentals or for owner occupation. The problems experienced with short term rentals elsewhere are a result of an inappropriate mix in unsuitable locations with inadequate management, not with short term rentals per se. A retrospective change to the interpretation of regulations under which people have developed buildings for holiday rental would be both a significant hardship for the owners and a loss of very popular holiday accommodation. You only have to read our visitors book to see!

                #18741
                Jimmy-T
                Keymaster
                Chat-starter

                  @Unitowner said:
                  I was disappointed to read the comments about short term letting. There are many areas in NSW where apartment buildings have been built to provide for people who want to holiday on the coast or elsewhere but don’t want to stay in a motel or holiday house … 

                  The problem is not buildings that were clearly intended to have short-term rentals or have a long history of having allowed them – it’s the residential buildings that have been invaded by opportunist parasites of the ‘party flat’ trade.

                  I think there is a place for holiday rentals like yours and good on you for making it work.  But if the ‘party flat’ industry is going to hide behind holiday rentals as a way of perpetuating their seedy trade, then it is them that you should be attacking, not those apartment residents who simply want to be able to live in the peace and quiet they are promised when they buy or rent their residential apartments in buildings that were never intended for short-term lets.

                  The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                  #18884

                  Who writes this cr..
                  Do some research!
                  ‘Partygate” is no more, the bad operator who allowed the parties in Melbourne has closed down.
                  The majority of the short term industry follow the “Code of Conduct”

                  Just think about this for a moment, why would I allow marauding schoolies, backpackers, football fans and bucks night in to my short term let to have it trashed.
                  You think I keep spare furniture in my back pocket.
                  No agent has ever revved me up or any of my friends who run short term, we do it because it allows us to keep control of our property while providing an accommodation choice other than a hotel.
                  Some facts:
                  “the growth in serviced apartments as a major form of tourist accommodation, representing at least 30 per cent of all short stay accommodation rooms in Australia’
                  Australian Government Productivity Commission Report – August 2010
                  To suggest that the poor long-term resident who finds him or herself outvoted by absentee landlords lured by the fast-buck agents promoting illegal rentals, is a bit over the top.
                  If you guys are lawyers, please explain how 30% of the market is illegal.
                  How selfish of us to want peace and quiet in our homes when there are owners who need to make a quick buck from their investment units – really, if you want peace and quiet, go and find a gum tree in the country, you will not get it in a city apartment, weather it be short or long term. At least with a short term guest I can evict them immediately, try and do that with a long term tenant that has doof doof next door to you – good luck.
                  Just read your other forum – Neighbour Noise, poor fellow – kept records of noise disturbances, obtained witness statements and finally went to mediation (at his expense) and eventually they got rid of the offending tenant – 
                  With a short term let we can evict bad behaviour immediately.
                  As we have said many times in this column
                  1) Who is we?
                  2) Where do you live.
                  I live in Australia a democracy not some dictatorship that forces developers to build specific buildings for the fly-by-night tenants or did you mean people who prefer to stay in an apartment rather than a hotel, because they have a choice.

                  If you think short-term lets are warts on the face of residential apartment living and it’s time the government and local councils got together with the CTTT and burned them off, you should find another profession.

                  #18886
                  carefulinvestor
                  Flatchatter

                    I am an owner of an inner city apartment I use myself some of the time and let out as short term accommodation at other times. Because someone stays for a shorter duration than someone on say a 12 or 6 month lease does not make them a raging drunk, feral, partying menace to others in the block. Nor does my letting my apartment out in this way make me a greedy, fast buck- chasing landlord. I expect anyone staying in our complex to be respectful of their neighbors and adhere to body corporate rules irrespective of the length of their stay. I personally screen and vet to make sure this is the case to the very best of my ability. If I visit another city for a few days, I would prefer to stay in quality, self-contained accommodation in this way, not a hotel. It is the management of the process and the respect for others which makes this work. We need to look at ways of getting this to be the case with these kinds of arrangements rather than trying to shut them down.

                    #18885
                    Jimmy-T
                    Keymaster
                    Chat-starter


                      @KayJ
                      said:
                      Who writes this cr..
                      Do some research!
                      ‘Partygate” is no more, the bad operator who allowed the parties in Melbourne has closed down.

                      If you think short-term lets are warts on the face of residential apartment living and it’s time the government and local councils got together with the CTTT and burned them off, you should find another profession.

                      If there was no problem do you think the City Of Melbourne would be spending tens maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars to eradicate it?

                      I live in Australia a democracy not some dictatorship that forces developers to build specific buildings for the fly-by-night tenants or did you mean people who prefer to stay in an apartment rather than a hotel, because they have a choice.

                      Maybe you should do some basic research – like looking up the word “democracy”, for a start. Your idea of a democracy is where the vast majority of owners in an apartment block don’t want short-term lets but they can’t stop them because a few greedy bastards have found a loophole in the law that allows them to exploit their neighbours while destroying their peace and quiet.  

                      Then you have the temerity to squeal when the loophole is closed, allowing the majority to prevail.  

                      What kind of democracy is it when the vast majority of residents have to put up with all the crap from “the few” short-term tenants?

                      And if there is such a huge demand for short-term rentals why wouldn’t you build special blocks for them?

                      But that would defeat the point, wouldn’t it?  You like well-maintained buildings where the excessive wear and tear of your high-rent tenants is shared by all the people who have to pay for the privilege of having them running riot in their homes.

                      Wrap yourself in your Aussie flag if you like, it still doesn’t give you the right to  destroy other people’s homes in the name of making a quick buck. That’s not democracy – it’s stratafascism.

                       

                      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                      #18887
                      Millie
                      Flatchatter

                        Let’s talk about the facts on Short-Term Letting (not simply ‘party flats’):

                        Living in a block, currently ‘fully booked’ (Wotif and Last Minute etc) thanks to school holidays and a major international Rugby Tour plus others reasons, may I add that those ‘wanting’ short-term letting and Owners Corps/ECs who condone the practise should consider:

                        As a lot owner of a residential apartment, it is a breach of the Environmental Planning & Assessment Act for Residential apartments to be used other than for the approved use: fines of up to $1.1 million and a daily penalty of up to $11,000 for each day that the breach continues. (www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/epaaa1979389/)

                        If a lot is leased, the lessor must give notice of the lease to the Owners Corporation within 14 days after the commencement of the Lease.  Maximum penalty for breach – $550. (www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/maintop/view/inforce/act+138+1996+cd+0+N/)

                        Body Corporates are bound by the Insurance Contracts Act 1984 (Commonwealth legislation).  “Alteration of Risk Exclusion:  You must promptly advise us…if the nature of the occupation or other circumstances affecting your insured property is changed in such a way as to increase the risk of loss or damage or the likelihood of liability losses.”

                        Penalty for non-disclosure and non-compliant use:  reduce or refuse to pay a claim, or cancel your policy.

                        When one uses a Residential building for short term letting, this is affecting a Change of Use = ‘refuse to pay a claim’.

                        Strata Unit owners have UNLIMITED LIABILITY.  In the event of a major fire or other event, loss of life, permanent injury etc, if the Insurance Company refuses to pay, not only can lot owners, including resident owners, lose their property/home, but investors renting short-term can lose their investment plus their own homes and personal savings, assets etc.  

                        Is the above not reason enough to comply with the Residential zoning approval on a building?

                        Every single Strata lot owner needs to know the facts.  

                        PLEASE:  It seems that there is great, great ignorance and/or short sightedness on this issue.  A major media campaign needs to be mounted, spelling out the facts and life-ruining financial risks involved. 

                        #18910
                        Jimmy-T
                        Keymaster
                        Chat-starter

                          @carefulinvestor said:
                          It is the management of the process and the respect for others which makes this work. We need to look at ways of getting this to be the case with these kinds of arrangements rather than trying to shut them down.

                          OK, but the difference between an hotel and an apartment is that you don’t have staff running the residential building 24 hours, seven days a week.  Who pays for the management of these problems? And why should permanent residents have to put up with any unnecessary disruption to their lives until the problem is managed? 

                          There is a whole tower block in the southern end of the city that was designed and built for short-term rentals. From what I hear, it’s never short of clients.  

                          Short-term lets in residential buildings are undercutting bona fide hotels, guest houses and executive rentals for the simple reason that they leach off all the good things about apartment living and contribute proportionately less than other owners compared to the wear and tear involved.

                          Why would anyone in their right mind allow investors to bring complete strangers, whom even the landlords and their agents have never met, into their homes in the hope that they will behave themselves?

                          It’s time everyone grew up and started accepting that apartments are permanents homes and not just a stop-gap on the way to a McMansion 

                          The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                          #19045
                          Jimmy-T
                          Keymaster
                          Chat-starter

                            Victorian government set to ban short term lets in Docklands residential buildings. Our good friend Tom Bacon of Strata Title Lawyers sent links to this TV report and this report

                            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
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