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02/01/2011 at 12:39 pm #7181
Dear Flat Chat
We have a pair of tenants in our our small block of nine units who
– regularly smoke on common property (inside and outside)
– allow their cat to roam around inside and outside at all hours of the day and night. As a result it wees on the carpet in the stairwell and sheds its hair and damages the garden. We then have to pay to get the carpet cleaned. Many residents are often disturbed at night by it crying and wanting to come in
– make abusive remarks to some of the owner occupiers if they dare ask them not to do things like smoke on common property
– plant plants in the garden without permission
and are generally very unpleasant to live with! Is there anything we can do to have them leave? Our Strata Manager is ineffective in dealing with our concerns.
Any advice would be much appreciated!Sincerely
Fed up.
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02/01/2011 at 1:31 pm #12322
OK, the first thing to remember is that tenants are subject to exactly the same laws and by-laws as any other resident, including owners. So get a copy of your by-laws and have a look at which ones you think they are breaching. Then go to an Executive Committee meeting and ask them to issue a Notice To Comply. You can download a Notice To Comply for here: https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/pdfs/About_us/Forms/Notice_to_comply.pdf.
The secretary of the Executive Committee can then sent the NTC or ask your strata manager to do so if they are worried about confrontations with the tenants. NB: You can only send one NTC per by-law breach and you have to specify the by-law that’s been broken. On the other hand, if they have broken several by-laws, they can get several NTCs and, potentially, several fines.
The NTC is effectively a final warning (although there doesn’t have to be any previous warning). If the tenants continue to breach the by-laws you take them to CTTT where the fine(s) can be imposed. Usually the threat of fines is enough to make most rogue tenants either behave or move out.
In a situation like yours, where the tenants have already ignored verbal requests to modify their behaviour, I would go straight to the NTC option. It’s not a fine, remember, it’s just a final warning but they ignore it at their peril.
Meanwhile, if they show no signs of changing their behaviour, gather as much evidence as you can including properly notarised statutory declarations and photographs (even recordings of the cat’s cries) so that when you take them to the CTTT the complaint will stick, the fines will be imposed and the threat of further fines will be hanging over them.
Hope this helps … if anyone has any other thoughts, please hop in and tell us what you think.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
03/01/2011 at 11:59 am #12326Compliance with By-Laws is a condition of the Standard Form of Residential Tenancy Agreement, so you would do much better by approaching the Tenant's Property Manager AND the Proprietor of the Lot concerned.
The Tenant's Agreement may be terminated for a breach of any of its terms including the one about compliance with By-Laws. All that influences the timing of that termination is whether the Agreement is current (within its term) or continuing (week-by-week), but in any case the threat of having their Agreement terminated is far greater that any Orders that the CTTT may issue.
I say MAY ISSUE, as the CTTT's passion is for mediation, where the tenants will no doubt promise to abide by the By-Laws which of course they'll say they knew nothing about (even though ignorance of the Law is no defense and the Property Manager is supposed to include a copy of those with the Agreement), and then do nothing.
That's why the advice about photographs and statements is appropriate if you go down the Breach Notice / CTTT path – which on the basis of past experiences I most definately would not recommend
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Hope this helps.
03/01/2011 at 2:40 pm #12327Whale
There’s a lot of sense in what you say but plenty of ECs find that many Rental Agents and landlords would much rather make this your problem than theirs. You can waste a lot of time chasing agents and landlords to do something when there is no upside for them (especially if the rogue tenant pays their rent on time and doesn’t damage their property).
Perhaps the best approach is to do both, cover all your bases and leave these reprobates under no illusion that their behaviour is unacceptable and has consequences.
But Whale does have a point – the CTTT can be a lottery, especially if you get some duffer that thinks the Owners Corporation is a big company and the tenant is always the victim.The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
04/01/2011 at 1:46 pm #12328Thanks so much for all your advice and suggestions. I've been trying to find out who the rental agent is but our Strata Manager won't give me these details and officially his office is closed until 13th Jan so I feel it's no use ringing and hassling him for this information until then. Anyway, I've started gathering evidence and will pursue all avenues available.
Cheers
09/01/2011 at 8:52 pm #12338AnonymousVery interesting.
I am in similar situation where neighbours are unreasonably noisy.
Our strata manager/owners's committe have refused to sent the notice to comply.
The reason they gave me: people make noise,it can't be measured and nobody else has complained.
The units are positioned in such a way that it affects only me. They want me to deal with it on my own. So, is it their obligation to address these matter?
I have searched the net a lot and it looks like it IS their duty.
There are definetely laws that suppose to protect everybody from any sort of annoying improper behaviour.
It sounds something like that:The owner or occupier of a lot must not create noise that is likely to interfere with peacefull enjoyment of the property at any time ,must not be a nuisance etc.
However,how strong are these laws enforced?
I have heard some cases when tenants did not pay the rent and magistrate still did not order them out. Apparently it is not strongly supported by law to terminate the agreement.But I really don't know.
I personally would like to avoid negotiations by Fair trading or CTTT since I don't know the negotiator's skills and ability.
Trying to impose on others to change their natural behavior would
be difficult IMHO.
Getting the advice from the lawyer-I would love to do that but there is no garantee that this lawyer have reasonable knowledge of the issue.Personaly I had absolutely wrong and illegal advice from the lawyer I used to buy unit.
Do owners have to give any reason asking tenants to move out?
Regards,
Joe
09/01/2011 at 10:47 pm #12339My understanding is that the EC has no obligation to take action if they don't think there is a problem (and possibly even if they do). However, an individual owner can apply to Fair Trading to have them issue a Notice To Comply – but they will insist on attempt at mediation first. Gather your evidence and contact Fair trading (Tel 13 32 20)
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
10/01/2011 at 6:33 am #12340Noise is always going to be a problem in some what in high/medium density living. You can't help hearing something when someone is on the other side of the wall. But it is hard for the EC to step in when they haven't witnessed or heard it themselves. What is annoying noise for one may not be that annoying for others.
I worked with someone who complained if his neighbour had a few friends over in the afternoon for a drink. I have kids next door to me and they do make noise now and again. But my neighbours do not play music late at night or make a habit out of making noise. It is just the occasional noises of life that I hear. And while that is fine by me, it may not be fine for someone else.
If these tenants are making noise regularly, could you ask the committee if you can contact them when they are noisy so they can hear for themselves? Perhaps ring a couple of them to come in? Could you record the noise?
Another way, that this complex has found very effective in the past, is to ask the EC to write to all residents with something like “It is necessary to remindi all residents that making enough noise to disturb neighbours is a breach of strata by laws”. Could also mention fines may be imposed. I have been told that breaching strata by laws is a reason to cancel a lease. In these tough rental times, anyone renting and reading that may keep themselves in check. We send notices like that out on a regular basis, to all residents, when one or two start to take liberties in the complex. We find that reminding all residents not only works on the offenders, but reminds the others not to start.
14/01/2011 at 7:03 pm #12345AnonymousIn my case my neighbour plays music almost every day.
I have recorded times he plays music but not the sound.Sometimes he plays music very loud other times not that loud but still annoying noise stops me doing what i need to do.
Sometimes around 7:00,7:30 am which wakes me up,sometimes late at night.
I have put proposal to EC to issue by-law where gatherings on the balconies and
amplified noise(heard in another lot) be prohibited and that by-law to be displayed on each floor.The main reason for that was to stop people whose lifestyle requires loud music or having get-together on the balcony to move in.
The idea was that they become aware of this by-law before they move in.
However, I am the only one affected and it did not go well.
I am really surprised that something like noise that many people complain about (I know quite few) has no easy way to be fix.
15/01/2011 at 10:23 am #12346The simplest way is to check what by-laws you already have and then ask your EC to issue a Notice To Comply. There should be a by-law on your books that says your neightbour can't interfere with the peaceful enjoyment of another's property.
If you don't have that by-law, think about applying to your district court for a Noise Abatement order but obviously you need to talk to a lawyer first.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
15/01/2011 at 4:48 pm #12347AnonymousJimmyT
Thanks
EC wants me to deal with it on my own. I really need to find out if this is their obligation or good will.
16/01/2011 at 8:04 am #12348I think it's pretty clear from the answers above that there is no obligation under law for the Owners Corporation to do anything in this regard – that's why you have the option of going to Fair Trading. There's nothing I recall in the Strata Act that says the EC has to pursue complaints by an individual owner. Call Fair Trading or consider getting a Noise Abatement order from your District Court (which means you really should talk to a lawyer).
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
28/01/2011 at 6:50 pm #12391AnonymousThe OC is not obliged to take any action re noise and unfortunately, individual owners won't support you unless they are directly affected by the noise.
They will advise you to deal with the matter yourself by either speaking with the tenant or taking the matter to the DFT.
Under these circumstances it is extremely difficult for an individual to prove that the noise is actually causing an unreasonable disturbance.
You would need to take into account the time of day, the type and duration of the noise, show how this noise affects your quality of life and where possible, record and measure the noise level.
To measure noise levels you need special equipment and a specialist to use it.
Most OC will tell you to call your council ranger or the local police to register a noise complaint, but neither of those authorities will act unless the noise can clearly be heard from the public street and is emitting from the premises after certain times, usually after midnight. Both authorities regard noise complaints as low priority and will only answer your noise complaint if they can get away fromtheir more urgent jobs.
So, without OC support, you are virtually on your own.
28/01/2011 at 11:02 pm #12394There is another alternative which is to get a Noise Abatement Order from your District Court – you may need more and a higher standard of evidence but if that is ignored the culprits are committing a crime.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
29/01/2011 at 9:26 am #12395AnonymousInformation re applying for a Noise Abatement Order from the local court.
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