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  • #11808
    Flame Tree (Qld)
    Flatchatter

      A ground floor unit in my block has their shower water temp vary from scalding to cold when the above units also use their own shower. Apparently it has something to do with pipe dimensions coming from the downstairs hot-water system. It is only this unit that is affected in this way. The body corporate committee has told her there is nothing they will do about it. A plumber said they can fix the pipework on the body corp’s behalf to regulate this and have checked it is not due to the owners own internal renovations. They are quite distressed as they have been burnt themselves and do have grand-kids who stay overnight that they are obviously concerned about. Who is right here, and what next steps can you suggest to remedy this situation? We live in Queensland.

    Viewing 7 replies - 1 through 7 (of 7 total)
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    • #30144
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        I’m hoping Lady P will hop in here as she’s our resident Queensland expert.  But the Body Corporate has a responsibility to maintain and repair common property in most states so they need to be reminded of this and pull their fingers out before someone gets hurt.

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #30146
        Sir Humphrey
        Strataguru

          This doesn’t address who is responsible but a tempering valve is part of a practical solution. For those who don’t know, if the water supply is above (I think) 50oC to bathrooms, it must be ‘tempered’ by a device which automatically mixes in some cold water to bring the temperature down to a safer temperature. 

          #30147
          Lady Penelope
          Strataguru

            The following link may help explain what is and what isn’t owner responsibility with regard to hot and cold water:

            https://www.qld.gov.au/law/housing-and-neighbours/body-corporate/maintenance/utility#

            In my experience most Lots in Qld have an independent hot water system. The  HWS is generally located under the kitchen bench, in a laundry, or on a balcony. All of these would be owner responsibility to maintain. These should include a tempering valve, particularly in a newly renovated Lot. 

            Tempering valve information for Qld:

            Tempering valves

            In hot water storage systems for residential buildings, hot water must be heated to a minimum of 60° Celsius to prevent the growth of bacteria such as Legionella.

            A tempering device ensures that hot water is delivered to taps at a maximum 50° Celsius. This temperature is considered sufficient for domestic hygiene purposes and effectively reduces the risk of scalding-related injuries from hot water use.

            A tempering device is required to be fitted to all new and replacement hot water systems. They can be identified by a blue, green, orange (solar systems) or black plastic cap fitted as part of the system’s piping.

            A quick internet search on the topic of inconsistent flows of hot and cold water reveals this: One of the most common plumbing configurations, is a trunk and branch system. This is where a larger diameter pipe runs from one end of the building to the other, and smaller diameter pipes branch off to supply rooms or individual fixtures. If any of the branches demands water (you flush the toilet), there is less water available to all the other branches.

            I am not a plumber but the following information may assist: Installing a new mixing valve in the shower, can reduce or eliminate the temperature fluctuations. Thermostatic mixing valves automatically balance the amount of hot and cold water being mixed, which will prevent drastic fluctuations in shower temperature. If the cold water flow is reduced (due to a toilet flush), the valve automatically adjusts the amount of hot water being mixed. This keeps the shower temperature more consistent, even when other fixtures are using water.

            The lot owner could try installing a new thermostatic mixing valve.

            http://at-aust.org/items/3571

            Difference between a tempering valve and a thermostatic mixing valve:

            * A tempering valve is a 3-way mixing valve that is temperature actuated and is used to temper a heated water supply by mixing the heated water with cold water to provide heated water at a lower temperature, normally 50deg Celsius at one or more outlet fixtures. 

            * A thermostatic mixing valve (TMV) is a mixing valve in which the temperature of the water from the mixed water outlet is automatically controlled by a thermostatic element or sensor to a preselected temperature that is suitable for direct contact with the skin.

            TMV’s are used to prevent scalding which can be caused by incorrect adjustment or inability to manipulate conventional taps. They are available as built in or exposed wall mounted units and have controls for adjusting the temperature and/or the volume of the water passing through the units.

            TMV’s are designed to deliver warm or mixed water, to an even, preset temperature and to compensate for any disturbance of pressure and/or temperature on the hot and cold water inlet services.

            #30150
            Jimmy-T
            Keymaster

              It doesn’t sound as if this unit’s hot water system is self-contained (especially since a plumber has said they can fix the common property pipes to resolve the problem).

              If that’s the case, and just out of general interest, what is the process in Queensland for compelling a Body Corporate to fulfil its legal obligation to maintain and repair?

              The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
              #30152
              Flame Tree (Qld)
              Flatchatter
              Chat-starter

                Thanks for your interest. The 2 large hotwater tank/systems are located downstairs outside (we repeat this for each of our 4 buildings site) and from which there are individual metres or guages or whotnot banked to the side for each lot. Electricity not gas is used. It apparently has something to do with variations in copper delivery pipe diameter from the system and when it enters the lot as affected when the units above use hot water. The system is in the basement garage, the affected unit is on the ground/podium level and units are in the 2 floors above. Cheers, C.

                #30153
                scotlandx
                Strataguru

                  From the information given it seems that the hot water system is a common property issue. If the plumber has advised he can fix it and the OC has refused, this is appalling, someone could get seriously hurt and the OC could be held liable.

                  We installed a new hot water system not long ago, with tempering valves going into each lot, which we didn’t have before due to the age of the building. I don’t think a valve would fix this.

                  #30154
                  Lady Penelope
                  Strataguru

                    In Qld the body corporate has a  strict statutory obligation to repair and maintain common property.

                    From Flametrees’s description of the shared HWS on the common property, the HWS and the pipes appear to be common property.

                    There is a correct process to go through to get this matter resolved.

                    It is best to do things correctly from the ‘get go’ as if this matter eventually ends up at QCAT you don’t want it to fail due to a procedure that was not correctly followed.

                    The Lot owner has an obligation to notify the body corp in writing of any common property and common services that need repairing. It appears that the lot owner has done this. Was the lot owner’s request rejected at a formal committee meeting via a resolution, or in an informal situation?

                    It is unclear whether the plumber has written a report on the issue or has merely given a verbal assurance that the problem can be fixed.

                    If nothing has been written then get it all down in writing, including the plumber’s report and quote, and submit it to the body corporate committee ASAP. This is a matter that needs to be approved at a committee meeting or a general meeting.

                    The committee and the body corporate have a statutory duty to act reasonably in all of the decisions that they make, or do not make.

                    If a committee meeting has not been scheduled for a few months then the lot owner may need to suggest that a vote outside of a committee meeting be utilised by the committee. Give them a reasonable time frame to have the problem sorted out.

                    A committee can only authorise a repair up to their allocated spending limit. This spending limit depends upon the number of lots in the scheme.

                    If the repair costs are over this amount then the spending will need to be authorised by the body corporate at a general meeting. This may take a little time to organise – it is a process that takes a legally mandated amount of time.

                    The body corporate should probably employ their own expert advice from an independent plumber to verify the advice from the lot owner’s plumber and to verify the quote. It would be reasonable for them to do this.

                    Depending on the cost of the quote, there may be a cheaper option for the body corp – to pay to have thermostatic mixing valves placed on the individual bathroom taps including showers and baths. This is similar to what is used in retirement villages and schools etc. It is my understanding that is not necessary on kitchen or laundry taps.

                    If the committee and/or the body corp don’t sort it out within a reasonable amount of time I would advise taking this matter to QCAT.

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