Short Term Lets

ps For the record:  do you give everyone your short-term stays a copy of the by-laws and are they aware of/comply with them?  Do you register each and every short-term ‘lease’ on the Strata Roll?  If short-term stays don’t comply with Council’s DA on your property but the Supreme Court says they’re OK, do they comply with the terms of your Building Insurance?  If you have your apartment/s negatively geared, ie you have a mortgage, does your Bank know that you’re renting it short-term – aka a serviced apartment – and not as a residential property?  I could go on but am more interested to know if you’d be happy with us all coming to stay at your place when you’re not there sometime soon?  (New Years Eve would suit.)  Cheers

I’m going to jump in here because there is a sense of crowing smugness about some of these posts  celebrating the failure of Melbourne City Council’s Supreme Court appeal against the victory by party flat short-term letters.  Enjoy it while it lasts.  

It’s an interpretation of the law, not a definition of right and wrong and eventually, as it always is, the law will be brought into line with public opinion and society’s values.  It’s just a matter of time.

By the way, I apologise to all the genuinely responsible, considerate and caring landlords of holiday lets, who take the time and trouble to ensure their tenants have no negative impact on your neighbours.

But the party-flat scumbags are using you as a human shield to protect their own selfish interests. You should be on our side, not theirs, or you could find you go down the same gurgler as they inevitably will.

Meanwhile please don’t give us your BS about voluntary codes of conduct and how licences to occupy are more effective control on bad tenants than leases.  They nothing more or less than a sop to politicians and legal loopholes to avoid having to abide by the same laws as other landlords.

If that’s the best you can come up with, it shows the profound dishonesty that is the bedrock of this grubby little business.

If you don’t actually live in the building, please tell us what mechanism you use to remove party animals who are destroying the legal right to peace and quiet that your neighbours are supposed to enjoy. And I mean when it’s happening – not two weeks later when they are long gone!

Long-term residents have to stick around and face the consequences of their actions. Meanwhile, how do we get in touch with YOU (or your mealymouthed agents) at 2 am on a Sunday morning when your tenants are singing Cold Chisel’s greatest hits on your balcony or in our swimming pool, and threatening anyone who dares to utter a reasonable request to keep the noise down.

Call the police?  Maybe they’ll come if they aren’t too busy scraping drunk drivers off the road or pursuing real criminals.  But if that’s your answer, you are just as much parasites on the law enforcement services as you are on your strata neigbours.

So what are your sanctions against your party animal tenants?  Oh, you won’t let your flat to Bozo ever again?  But Numpty, Johnno and Tubby can each have a go at putting their name on the lease – sorry, licence to occupy – so that’s going to be really effective, isn’t it.

And it’s too late for the people who’ve suffered yet another weekend of disruption in their homes.

It may be different if you actually live in the property where you are letting out homes like hotel rooms.  But if you don’t, and if you or your agents don’t even meet the people who are renting your property, in my humble opinion you are an irresponsible, selfish, greedy grub.

All over Australia right now, strata residents – tenants and owners – who are afflicted by the scourge of short-term lets are wondering what Christmas will bring.  It might be a nice family looking for a quiet time by the beach – or it could be a bunch of yahoos who don’t give a damn about whose peace and quiet they disrupt  because by the time any complaints filter back to the landlords, they’ll be long gone.

You can’t control that and neither can your neighbours and that’s why sooner or later the law will be changed and you will be out of your tawdry little business.

Part of the problem those who defend the short-term letting industry chose to think there isn’t a problem, despite all the evidence to the contrary.  

And when they start crowing about a legal decision In Victoria, it’s not they they have been proved morally right – because we all know that’s never going to happen – but because they have been allowed to get away with it for a bit longer.

If there is such a “need” for short-term lets, let developers build serviced apartment blocks where they are allowed by council regulations and you can invest in them.  

Oh, but wait, that would mean you would have to pay commercial council rates for things like garbage collection and insurance.  It’s so much better to leech off apartment residents (even if it does mean making their lives a misery).

Regardless of the Victorian Supreme Court ruling (on a point of law) this opportunistic and parasitic invasion of people’s homes has to stop.

So enjoy your little victory while you can.  But it won’t be long until the party’s over. 

@KayJ said:
Jimmy T it is a bit rude to change the heading half way through the discussion.

Isn’t it a bit rude to ignore the conventions of this website to write a headline that is three or four lines lines long just so you can crow about your success?

I have previously changed other headlines that were too long (but shorter than yours).  Have some respect for the Forum, please.

@KayJ said:

… why do you keep referring to it as a ‘party flat’ – There has never been a party in my rental. I will not allow it to be trashed, what don’t you understand about that fact.  

The decision you are celebrating in your original posting was about party flats.  You opened that discussion and associated yourself with those people. 

As a property owner I can now use my apartment as a short term rental and keep control of the property.

… and to Hell with the majority of people in your building if they don’t want that.

If someone breaks my House Rules, they are out.

But if a landlord breaks the rules of their building or the council’s zoning laws that’s OK because they have the ‘right’ to make money?

By them having a licence to occupy and not a lease they can be evicted immediately.

By whom?  Forget your idyllic situation for a moment; when has this happened?  Why didn’t it happen at the Watergate building in Melbourne (which this case is all about)?

You can’t use your specific experience to generalise about all short-term rentals.  Are you saying there is no problem?  Or is it just that other strata residents all over Australia have to potentially suffer just so you can have your investment?  

Public opinion is increasing in their desire for fully self contained residences.

Are you saying more people want to stay in serviced apartments than hotels?  Fine, build some serviced apartments and stop invading our homes. Public demand for designer drugs is also increasing but I don’t see that being used as an argument for undermining the law. 

Our Code of Conduct will get rid of the small minority that you refer to. 

And Santa Claus will be coming down the chimney any minute …  If it was as easy as that, Melbourne City Council would not have needed to run this case in the first place and the Victorian government would not be planning to change the law.

Self-regulation of the industry is working very well according to the Australian Building Codes Board and a number of Government bodies who understand the demand by families for a self contained residences.

Where does it say that? 

The Australian Governments Productivity Commission Research Report 2010, states the following on page 190 … the growth in serviced apartments as a major form of tourist accommodation, ‘representing at least 30 per cent of all short stay accommodation rooms in Australia’

All this means is that your short-term renting friends may be an even bigger problem than we thought. Build holiday flats and stop leeching off people who are trying to create communities.

 … please tell us what mechanism you use to remove party animals who are destroying the legal right to peace and quiet that your neighbours are supposed to enjoy. 

– Jimmy – exactly the same way you do for long term tenants who make a noise as you have explained elsewhere on this site.

What rubbish! Long-term residents don’t disappear after a weekend before the building manager, strata manager and EC have even been told there’s a problem. And if there is no problem with short-term rentals, why would this even be an issue?

 … how do we get in touch with YOU (or your mealymouthed agents) at 2 am on a Sunday morning when your tenants are singing Cold Chisel’s greatest hits on your balcony or in our swimming pool, …

– In my case text my mobile – all my neighbours have it …

Well done! But that’s you and I’m sure if the same system had operated in The Watergate in Melbourne then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.  But you are not the problem KayJ … just all the cowboys in your industry whom you seem to support despite the fact that they don’t give a damn about their neighbours.

So what are your sanctions against your party animal tenants … it’s too late for the people who’ve suffered yet another weekend of disruption in their homes.

I have already covered that!

No you haven’t. What about all the absentee owners who hand over their properties to agents and don’t even know if their property has been occupied or not until they get their monthly statement?  

Any one who runs a good business will meet and greet, with the power of the internet, you will not survive if you cannot deliver what you promote.

Maybe you do … many, many others don’t.  And we are not talking about “good business” are we?

In our building it is the bikies upstairs that are the problem and we cannot do anything – we have tried.

So now you’re saying unruly tenants CAN’T be evicted?

Part of the problem those who defend the short-term letting industry chose to think there isn’t a problem, despite all the evidence to the contrary.  

What evidence – have you read what Justice Beach, Nettle and Osborn actually said in their judgements.

Yes I have and it’s pages and pages of definitions of what is a dwelling and what is a hotel room and some stuff about whther anyone was actually in danger because of a lack of hotel-style fire exit signs.  That’s it.  

There is nothing about giving uncontrolled groups of people access to residents’ homes with no thought for the impact that has on their peace and quiet.  Nothing.  

This was a technical building law issue which had been raised as a last desperate attempt to deal with an intractable social issue.  The ruling was about building law – not the behaviour of short-term tenants.

The “since when is it a crime to make money?’ line you use elsewhere cuts to the heart of this problem.  A small number of greedy people are making a lot of people’s lives Hell in pursuit of a fast buck.

You support their “right” to do so by saying you don’t do all the bad things.  Hey, I don’t drink and drive but I do drink and I do drive.  Should I be supporting drunk drivers?

Yes the party is over and we can get back to business and continue to provide a regular flow of patrons to the local restaurants, and dollars to the local shops, tickets to the football games and shows around town.

Which wouldn’t happen if they stayed in hotels, motels or in properly designated holiday flats? What about the hotel workers who lose their jobs because of people illegally letting their flats as holiday homes? What does that do for the local economy?

And what about the long-term tenants who are squeezed out of the rental market because of inflated prices (viz Byron Bay’s experience).  Or the inflationary effect this has on unit and house prices.  

But no, short-term letting landlords are people who really CARE about their communities … apart from their neighbours in the buildings that they have turned into hotels.