Flat Chat Strata Forum Common Property Current Page

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  • #9263
    Anonymous

      Am currently in dispute over addition of a sun screen (shutter) to the left elevation of our balcony that has been approved by the scheme architects for our community. Unfortunately my neighbour who is on the executive has raised an objection saying it will partially impede his water view through my balcony and that he has legal advice that indicates that his objection would override any proxies or consensus by other members of our strata plan. There are 30 lot owners in our SP. Can one individual block another lot owner regardless of precedence , compliance with architectural standards etc ?? 

       

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    • #20408

      Hi Tony

      Compliance with architectural standards will nay get you so far i.e. the proposed shutters will be in keeping with look of the building. However, the issue is that, given the shutters must be attached to common property, you will require a by-law to be approved by special resolution at a general meeting giving you the privilege of use of this part of common property.

      Section 52 of the SSMA states the following;

      52   How does an owners corporation make, amend or repeal by-laws conferring certain rights or privileges?

      (1)  An owners corporation may make, amend or repeal a by-law to which this Division applies, but only:

      (a)  with the written consent of the owner or owners of the lot or lots concerned and, in the case of a strata leasehold scheme, the lessor of the scheme, and

      (b)  in accordance with a special resolution.

       Part (a) above is the crux of the matter. The by law can be challenged (even if specially resolved and registered) if any affected owners do not give their written consent. An adjudicator is likely to deem that the neighbour is definitely a “concerned lot” given their view will be partially obscured as a result. 

      #20421
      Tony
      Flatchatter

        Hi Flat Chat Mate :)

        Very much appreciate your input as to the relevant provisions – does this mean any concerned lot can basically stop any proposal irrespective of precedents or majority of other owners within the SP. Further how is the validity of ones argument measured – eg if one obscures 15 % or less of ones view does this equal the same level of concern as someone with a loss of 100 per cent. Further , it would be unlikely in the purchase contract that their be say a clause guaranteeing unrestricted views . Finally how does ones right to privacy and use of their own lot , precedence within the SP etc weigh up over a single lot owners concern and therefore right to veto ?? What would one see as best next steps ?

        #20422
        Whale
        Flatchatter

          I agree with most of that, but why would the exclusive use privilege be necessary?

          Tony’s sun screen could in my opinion be consented under Sect 65A (c), where a Special By-Law would only be necessary if the Owners Corporation wished to, with Tony’s prior consent, formally shift the responsibility of maintaining the sun screen from itself to him?

          As for a possible objection by the Owner of the neighbouring Lot, they would have an opportunity to do that at the General Meeting where Tony’s proposal must be discussed, voted upon, and consented by way of a special resolution (≥ 75% in favour by unit entitlement) if the erection of the sun screen is to proceed – as JGOWI advised the architect’s approved is not sufficient.

          If the O/C did consent to the sun screen, and the neighbour was still aggrieved, then he/she could certainly seek to have the O/C’s special resolution invalidated under Sect 153 if the Adjudicator could be persuaded that the neighbour was adversely affected; but that would be the limit of their legal rights to object in my opinion.

          #20425
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster


            @Tony
            said:
            Hi Flat Chat Mate  :)

            FYI: His name is Just Get On With It – Flat(Chat)Mate is his website rank

            Very much appreciate your input as to the relevant provisions – does this mean any concerned lot can basically stop any proposal irrespective of precedents or majority of other owners within the SP.

            No.  An individual has the right to object and pursue maters through the Executive Committee, Fair Trading and/or the CTTT (not to mention local council).  But they don’t have a veto

            Further how is the validity of ones argument measured – eg if one obscures 15 % or less of ones view does this equal the same level of concern as someone with a loss of 100 per cent.

            This is a matter for consideration by the relevant bodies (listed in the previous response).  But common sense would tell you that someone having 100 percent of their view blocked has a stronger case that someone losing only 10 percent.  

            Further , it would be unlikely in the purchase contract that their be say a clause guaranteeing unrestricted views. 

            It is accepted in planning that you don’t own the view (although you are entitled to your fair share of daylight).

            Finally how does ones right to privacy and use of their own lot, precedence within the SP etc weigh up over a single lot owners concern and therefore right to veto ??

            As explained above, there is no right to veto, just a right to object.  But, just as a general principle, if your neighbour wants special treatment (nothing obscuring their view when other neighours do have partially obscured views). And as consequence of this you have to suffer unduly, I think any reasonable body would take your side.

            What would one see as best next steps ?

            Doing this by the book, I think you have to press your owners corp to support an application to install the screen and I think you then take that to your local council for approval.  But in both instances, obviously, be prepared for a fight from the neighbour.

            Or, you could just inform the Owners Corp that you can’t wait for them to decide, that you are prepared to fulfill any reasonable requirements they may have but that you intend to install the screen as per the original design.  If they want you to remove it, THEY take YOU to Fair Trading, the CTTT and the council.

            The latter is a riskier strategy but at least it brings the wheelspin of indecision to an abrupt end. Acting reasonably up to the point when it’s not doing you any good, then acting decisively, has an appeal.  But be prepared for your action finally galvanising the Owners Corp into doing something – like applying for a CTTT ruling to force you remove the shade. 

            Alternatively, wait till the new laws come in mid next year when you will be able to apply to the CTTT to force the Owners Corp to make a decision they might otherwise be dithering over at your expense.

             

             

            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
            #20439
            Tony
            Flatchatter

              Hi JimmyT,

               

              Thanks so much to you and Whale for the detailed and thoughtful advice – new to apartment living so very much ‘a dolphin in the shark tank’ so to speak …the additional complication in this matter is that there is an overriding body that manages the entire estate – the Community Association Executive upon which my neighbour sits as an an executive member representing our SP.After 6 months of deliberations within my own SP – I had to then submit written plans and architect approvals to this body for approval before resubmitting it to my SP for a special resolution . For the past 3 months the CA has deferred my application claiming there are so called inconsistencies in their own architects interpretation of the standards and hence my matter has been deferred until they seek further legal advice. Hence as I understand it by not rejecting my application i am not entitled to commence any formal action e.g. mediation as a decision has not been made. Further my own SP has sought their own legal advice in reference to the rights of my neighbour to stop a majority vote where he realises he is a relatively lone voice within the complex.

              I am considering commencing a community campaign across our Estate with leaflets – billboards etc informing them of the situation so as to apply some pressure to the CA in the unreasonableness of their position given the circumstances any thoughts ? 

               

              #20441
              Jimmy-T
              Keymaster


                @Tony
                said:

                I am considering commencing a community campaign across our Estate with leaflets – billboards etc informing them of the situation so as to apply some pressure to the CA in the unreasonableness of their position given the circumstances any thoughts ? 

                 

                To be honest, I think that may be counterproductive if for no other reason than the majority of your neighbours won’t want to know about one person’s battles with the EC and you could come across as the cause of the problem rather than the victim.

                In your position I would write a letter to your own committee and the  community association executive committee saying that you are running out of patience and that you are no longer prepared to accept what seems to be deliberate stalling tactics.  

                If you have not received notice that this matter is being progressed withing 14 days, you intend to start proceedings at Fair Trading and, if that fails to achiever the desired result, move on to the CTTT where you will seek Adjudicator’s Orders for the strata scheme and the community scheme to move forward and resolve the issue.

                This will be a time consuming and expensive exercise for them, should they choose to defend it and you will feel duty bound to explain to your neighbours why their money is being wasted on protecting one EC member’s selfish interests over another owner’s right to the same protection from the elements that is afforded to every other owner.

                If that doesn’t work, go HERE to find out how to pursue a claim firstly at Fair Trading (mediation is compulsory) and then go HERE for the form which takes you to the CTTT.

                At some point you might want to consult an experienced strata lawyer (not just an ordinary solicitor) to establish the best way forward.  In fact, a lawyer’s letter can often have the desired effect without all the hassle and potential heartache of actually taking the issue to a tribunal.

                 

                The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                #20450
                Tony
                Flatchatter

                  Magic advice JimmyT – thank you so much I will action asap and keep the forum posted. PS : – This site is an invaluable resource and I will be a strong advocate for it in the future – Many thanks and Merry Christmas :)  

                  #20551
                  Tony
                  Flatchatter

                    2014 and the nonsense continues — copy of BCA exec minutes landed in my inbox over Christmas noting that they had conditionally approved my application for shutters on basis that quote — ” requires 100 per cent approval from all those affected” is this even legal ? Interestingly we have not been informed of this decision by our own SP exec , who had I understand sought their own legal advice . 

                    #20552
                    kiwipaul
                    Flatchatter

                      @Tony said:
                      2014 and the nonsense continues — copy of BCA exec minutes landed in my inbox over Christmas noting that they had conditionally approved my application for shutters on basis that quote — ” requires 100 per cent approval from all those affected” is this even legal ? Interestingly we have not been informed of this decision by our own SP exec , who had I understand sought their own legal advice . 

                      No I don’t belive this is legal UNLESS their is a bylaw requireing 100% approval (and I even doubt if this was property registered it would stand up as it conflicts with the act).

                      Take a look around your estate and see what alterations others have done and then check the bylaws for SR relevant to those alterations. Also check minutes of GM and EC meeting to see what others have been granted permission to do (especially this objector).

                      Strata have to apply the rules even handedly and so cannot deny one person permission whilst granting it to others (without a very good reason).

                      You can use these unapproved alterations in your case at CTTT to show the unreasonbleness of the objections. Also if a neighbour had to give approval for any building that affected their view the building industry would grind to a halt.

                       

                      #20555
                      Jimmy-T
                      Keymaster

                        kiwipaul said 

                        You can use these unapproved alterations in your case at CTTT to show the unreasonbleness of the objections. Also if a neighbour had to give approval for any building that affected their view the building industry would grind to a halt.

                        KP is absolutely right and the mechanism you could use to force the EC’s hand is an order by the CTTT under section 158 for them to impose a by-law on the grounds that you are prepared to accept the cost of ongoing maintenance but the Owners Corporations are being unreasonable in their refusals, delays and the conditions they are imposing.

                         

                        This is what section 158 says:

                        158 Order with respect to by-laws conferring exclusive rights or privileges over common property

                        (1) An Adjudicator may make an order prescribing the making, amendment or repeal, in terms of the order, of a by-law if the Adjudicator finds:

                        (a) on application made by an owner, that the owners corporation has unreasonably refused to make a by-law of the kind referred to in section 51, or

                        (b) on application made by an owner or owners corporation, that an owner of a lot, or the lessor of a leasehold strata scheme, has unreasonably refused to consent to the terms of a proposed by-law of that kind, or to the proposed amendment or repeal of such a by-law, or

                        (c) on application made by any interested person, that the conditions of such a by-law relating to the maintenance or upkeep of any common property are unjust.

                        (2) In considering whether to make an order under this section, an Adjudicator must have regard to:

                        (a) the interests of all owners in the use and enjoyment of their lots and common property, and

                        (b) the rights and reasonable expectations of any owner deriving or anticipating a benefit under a by-law of the kind referred to in section 51.

                         

                         

                        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                        #20566
                        Tony
                        Flatchatter
                          Thanks again KP and Jimmy – here is a copy of my email to the CMS today :-

                           

                          Dear Sir, 

                           

                          Further to our previous email correspondence of the 5th December, 2013 wherein we still await a response , we understand that the CMS has now again deferred our application pending discussions with the local council on so called procedural matters notwithstanding our approval  … suggesting at any time that this was a requirement pre installation  .

                           

                          We also understand that since our application in September 2013 , not all Shutter Applications within the Community have been deferred, noting approval for shutters at lot Y for the install of two shutters 28/10/13 ; lot Z fixed shutters north and south with 100 per cent coverage 25/11/13 seemingly indicating a glaring inconsistency in the application of due process.  

                           

                          Given that our application will provide much needed sun screening to the western side of the balcony only and will remain open for the majority of the year… not to mention other similar and more pervasive instals at the same complex we cannot comprehend the reasoning for selectively discriminating against this approval.

                           

                          … it is our intention to use the shutters in a fully extended position to screen the western sun during the hotter months/days . 

                           

                          Accordingly we ask that the CMS reconsider our application and approve its installation on or before its next meeting. Otherwise we will have no option but to seek adjudicators orders at the CTTT .

                           

                          It is our fervent hope that common sense prevails and that the CMS time is given to the many more competing and difficult priorities within the estate .

                           

                          #20567
                          Jimmy-T
                          Keymaster

                            @Tony said:

                            Thanks again KP and Jimmy – here is a copy of my email to the CMS today :-

                             

                            What is the CMS?  There are so many acronyms and abbreviations, you really need to spell names out the first time you use them or we have no idea what you are talking about (if it’s a company we could all be in trouble!)

                            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                            #20570
                            Tony
                            Flatchatter

                              Sorry about that – CMS is the community association executive for the estate !

                               

                              #20619
                              Tony
                              Flatchatter

                                I have been informed by our owners corp that proxies I received from lot owners in anticipation of a special resolution are not valid – only after a letter and agenda is sent by the owners corp will proxies be accepted. further I am told that only 25 per cent need to vote no and experience of general meetings is that only 20 or so owners turn up and it is easy to get 4 or 5 voting against in this instance my neighbour is more aligned with a number of owners and has I am told already secured a voting block regardless of whether I am successful at the community estate level. I have also been informed by the owners corp that they will seek orders to make me remove the shutters if I go ahead without permissions and that I am unlikely to win the case if I try to get adjudicators orders as there is now a very detailed document trail explaining due process .

                                Heaven help us if this is what is supposed to be community living !

                                #20622
                                Jimmy-T
                                Keymaster

                                  Tony, I know this is going to sound weird but i would find these latest moves encouraging.  Your EC is clearly trying to prevent a meeting from taking place so you have ask yourself why.  They are also giving you what I think is false information.  Again, why?

                                  On the question of false information, I have never heard of this business of proxies only being valid after a meeting has been called and an agenda set. The official proxy form – which must be used – allows the proxy to be given for a period of time and a number of meetings.  How can it be used if the future meetings for which it is valid haven’t been called?  Have a look at the form – you can download it HERE.  You’ll see it doesn’t specify for which meeting(s) it’s valid.

                                  Secondly, even if the meeting goes ahead and you are outvoted, that puts the EC and your neighbours’ cronies in a very tricky position.  Once they have rejected your application, you can go to NCAT (formerly the CTTT) and seek  an order under section 158 which says … 

                                   

                                  (1) An Adjudicator may make an order prescribing the making … of a by-law if the Adjudicator finds:

                                  (a) on application made by an owner, that the owners corporation has unreasonably refused to make a by-law of the kind referred to in section 51 …

                                  (2) In considering whether to make an order under this section, an Adjudicator must have regard to:

                                  (a) the interests of all owners in the use and enjoyment of their lots and common property, and

                                  (b) the rights and reasonable expectations of any owner deriving or anticipating a benefit under a by-law of the kind referred to in section 51.

                                  NB: Section 51 lays down the ground rules for creating exclusive use by-laws, including who will be responsible for the ongoing maintenance of common property affected by any work that is done.

                                  OK, so what do you do next? 

                                  If everything you’ve told us is true, my tactic would be to write a letter to all owners, along these lines:

                                  How your EC could waste thousands of YOUR dollars to benefit one owner.

                                  Dear neighbour,

                                  I am an owner resident in Lot XX and I have been trying in vain to be allowed to install exactly the same window shutters as many of you already have.  I am prepared to use exactly the same design and colours as everyone else and I am prepared to undertake the maintenance and repair of the shutters and the common property to which they are attached, as required by strata law.

                                  I want to do this to make my home more comfortable at those times when the sun would otherwise shine directly into it.  This is a simple facility that many of you already enjoy.

                                  Unfortunately, my shutters would occasionally intrude to a minimal extent into the unobstructed view that a neighbour currently enjoys. The owner is a member of your Executive Committee which has delayed and reject my application at every turn.

                                  The result, in a nutshell,  is that my family has to bake in the sunshine so that he can enjoy his view  completely unfettered.

                                  In a few weeks, we will hold a general meeting at which I have been warned the owner already has gathered sufficient votes to reject the request again. He only needs 25 percent of people voting at the meeting in person or by proxy to reject the motion.

                                  I need your proxy vote to make sure this doesn’t happen and to avoid the waste of thousands of dollars of your money.

                                  If the meeting rejects what I truly believe is a fair and reasonable request, I have several avenues open to me to pursue this issue, all of which, unfortunately, will be at considerable cost to you, the owners of this building.  

                                  If the by-law is rejected, I intend to pursue a Section 158 order at NCAT (formerly the CTTT) compelling the Owners Corporation to pass a by-law that is fair to me and to the majority of owners.  

                                  If they defend it, your EC will have to spend an estimated $6,000 to $8,000 in strata manager and legal fees, preparing a submission which, I have been advised, has little chance of success. FYI, the maximum cost to me will be less than $160 as I already have all the documents I require to make a compelling case.

                                  What we are looking at is an utter waste of your money and the EC and strata manager’s time trying to block a perfectly reasonable request that is to the minimal detriment of only one owner.  

                                  The  alleged “intrusion” is only marginal, temporary and much less than many of you already seem able to cope with. And, as we are often told by planners and real estate professionals, nobody owns the view.

                                  So I implore you to send me your proxy vote on the attached form.  If I have enough votes at the upcoming meeting we will be able to stop this nonsense now before it gets any uglier and more expensive.

                                  I am happy to discuss this in detail with any of you and have detailed drawings and pictures to show how my plans fit in perfectly with the rest of the building and how they are only the slightest intrusion into my neighbours view. {Add contact details here}

                                  Now, at this point I have to stress that I am not a lawyer and I obviously am not aware of all the minutiae surrounding this matter.  All I can say is if I were in your shoes and the facts were as presented here, this is what I would do.

                                  Also, I don’t know your neighbours and how they would respond to the implied threat.  If they hate squabbling and resent being told what to do, the letter may be counter-productive.

                                  On the other hand, in many buildings a lot of people are glad to get a chance to have a kick at the EC for past slights, real or imagined.  Only you can decide which way to go.

                                  But go ahead with the meeting because it’s harder to argue that your application has been rejected if a general meeting hasn’t rejected it.

                                  Best of luck.

                                  The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
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