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  • #9782
    confused1
    Flatchatter

      I’ve just started on the EC in a smallish building of 15 that’s around 40 years old (the building, not me). There has never been a special by-law registered – EVER!

      As you can imagine, in that time most have renovated bathrooms, kitchens, floors etc. One has even knocked out a whole wall! There have been quite a few sales in the last few years so the new owners aren’t accountable for the renovations.

      We finally have a strata manager who knows his stuff and he’s asking an owner to register a by-law to renovate. We all understand that this is the correct procedure but how do we enforce this now? The owner knows that at least 75% of the building have renovated without the added expense of a by-law (not to mention accountability), so is quite ticked off (and rightly so) that they are expected to do this, knowing that strata is still responsible for everyone else’s renovations.

      How should we tackle this? I don’t believe it’s fair to punish this owner who has tried to do the right thing by asking for EC approval when most have done it on the sly. Should we just continue with the way it’s been for the previous 40 years, so strata cops the odd waterproofing bill here and there? Or can we justify starting to do things the correct way from now on? Is there a way we can enforce a by-law on every bathroom that is not original?

    Viewing 12 replies - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)
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    • #22522
      Whale
      Flatchatter

        confused1 – perhaps read the posts HERE in the first instance.

        Then, in the circumstances you describe where numerous owners both past and present have renovated their Units to the extent that the consent of the Owners Corporation (O/C) should have been granted beforehand, and other owners now want to, perhaps consider the O/C putting a generic “renovation by-law” on the Agenda of a General Meeting so that those present may consider and hopefully specially resolve to accept and Register it.

        Such a by-law (special by-law actually) could, amongst other things, incorporate a provision that the owners of Lots, where renovations of a type that require the prior consent of the O/C have already been undertaken, could benefit from a moratorium of say 6 months during which time they could seek the O/C’s retrospective consent to those on the proviso that they agreed in writing to be responsible for all on-going maintenance of consequent changes to the common property arising from those (renovations), and to have all details recorded in a Register held and maintained by the O/C.

        A further provision of the suggested special by-law would be that any owners who choose not to avail themselves of the moratorium by seeking the O/C’s retrospective consent would, prior to the settlement of any future sale of their Lot/s, suffer a notion on the Sect 109 Certificate provided by the O/C stating that its Register has “nothing shown” concerning consented changes to Common Property areas within the Lots; ipso facto any such changes are not consented and are not the responsibility of the O/C!

        OK, those last six words (above) are a bit of a try-on, but just as the O/C’s consent may be granted retrospectively so may the provisions of a “renovation by-law” that’s properly passed at the General Meeting and Registered.

        I’ve done precisely what I’ve suggested here for our Strata Plan, but as I’m not a Lawyer, I strongly suggest that IF your O/C decides to go this way then it engages one to assist.

        #22658
        Curly
        Flatchatter

          The information you provide here is so helpful. 

          We are in the process of getting approval for renovations to a Villa we recently bought. We had a lawyer draft a Special Bylaw (SBL) as requested by the manager and have supplied the plans and engineer’s report. On the weekend a met two separate owners who invited me into their villas to look at their renovations. Whole walls have been removed and windows replaced with sliding doors leading to the courtyard.

          I’ve checked and there are no SBLs registered on title. I’ve now written to the EC and manager and without naming names have advised that we certainly understand why SBLs are required and it would make more sense to have a generic one for all owners rather than one just for us. Is this the legal way to remedy this situation and should the EC comply?

           

          Our AGM is mid December….

          #22660
          Whale
          Flatchatter

            dan – absolutely… and I’d strongly recommend that the proposed Special By-Law (SBL) incorporates both the moratorium and the keeping of the Register outlined in my previous post (#2), or at least that the applicable Motion before the Annual General Meeting incorporates those provisions so that they’re “enshrined” in the resultant special resolution if passed.

            I don’t know how strata-experienced your Lawyer is, but the process that I’ve recommended is entirely within the provisions of the NSW Strata Schemes Management Act (SCMA), albeit as I suggested earlier the implication that any renovation that’s not shown in the Register is un-consented and that its ongoing maintenance and repair is deemed by the Owners Corporation (O/C) to be the responsibility of the then Lot Owner (who may not be the renovator) could be contested.

            I made that observation because in order for any SBL to properly transfer part of the O/C’s responsibility to attend to common property maintenance to an Owner, that Owner needs to agree in writing to that provision. So whilst it could be claimed (as I do) that all Owners agreed to that provision when they passed the Special Resolution to create and register the SBL, a counter-position could be argued, and arguments of the legal variety are the last thing that an O/C needs.

            On the subject of your Executive Committee (E/C) agreeing to make your Lawyer’s draft SBL into a generic document in the form that I’ve suggested and to reimburse your costs for the work done to date, you can but try, however remember that your Strata Manager is a consultant/advisor to your O/C, and remind your E/C that it has a legal obligation to ensure that the Strata Plan is managed in compliance with the SCMA and to correct past non-compliances such as those that you’ve identified and about which they’re now aware; that’s what you’re asking them to do and indeed showing them how to do it!

            I don’t know how many Lots are in your Plan or how many of those comprise the anonymous renovators, but you’ll need ≥75% of those at the AGM (including by proxy) to support your Motion for the SBL, so best get lobbying for the votes of personal attendees and proxies!

            #22663
            Curly
            Flatchatter

              Whale – The reality is probably most of the Villas have had illegal renovations done, some major and others minor. Only recently the EC president had a skip on common property for weeks while getting an extensive bathroom renovation.  Owners would in effect be voting to take on maintenance for common property affected by the renovations which the OC is currently responsible for. Realisticly can you see any incentive for owners now agreeing to a SBL that would make them responsible?

              #22666
              Whale
              Flatchatter

                Can’t predict that dan, but as your (Strata) Manager has asked you to follow the legally correct procedures with regard to your proposed renovations, it’s obvious to me that they at least would be amenable to setting right past oversights.

                Furthermore, IF any of the previous renovators are current Owners, then I’d expect they too would be receptive to a SBL that merely makes them responsible for maintaining their past works where those involve common property areas; they probably expected to anyway!

                It’s the subsequent Owners of renovated Villas that can be potentially problematic, as they may (or choose to) believe that everything’s original, and therefore some is still common property.

                In any event, you’ll never know until that Motion is placed on the Agenda for your upcoming AGM; even if you have to submit it yourself!

                #22667
                kaindub
                Flatchatter

                  Dan3101

                  i believe that the incentive for lot owners to pass the SBL is that it validates their damaging common property. The remedy for damaging common property is that the lot owner has to restore the damage back to original.

                  now no lot owner is going to want to undo their Reno. Therefore they will vote for it.

                  i had a similar situation. In the notice of meeting sent with the motion (SBL) we explained the implications of voting for and against, including that owners would have to remove their additions if the SBL was not passed.

                  guess what the final vote was? Yes 100% in favour

                   

                  Robert

                  #22691
                  Curly
                  Flatchatter

                    Our AGM agenda has arrived. It has a proposed motion for our Villa renovations only complete with Special Bylaw, our plans and engineer’s report.

                    The agenda also has another motion for a Generic Renovation Bylaw which states that the owners of Lot X (me) requested a generic renovation by law be draft and presented at the AGM. (I had actually followed Whale’s suggestion and asked for a bylaw with a moratorium of 6 months so that anyone who needed to could seek the OC’s retrospective consent). The motion explains that the EC got legal advice and bylaws authorising renovation works generally are problematic in light of recent Tribunal decisions.

                    The motion lists some confusing options all with their own restrictions as follows;

                    • a bylaw under section 52. This will confer maintenance and repair obligations, but it requires the written consent of all owners (if rights are being given to all owners) and it must specify the relevant area of common property (which is not known for all lots),
                    • a bylaw under section 47, which contains a pro-forma bylaw under section 52 which owners will complete and send to the strata manager each time they wish to conduct renovation works. This ensures compliance with the ACT and lot owners are saved the expense of arranging their own by-law, however it does not circumvent the need for general meetings each time an owner proposes work,
                    • a bylaw under section 47 which does confer maintenance and repair obligations or a bylaw under section 52 which is not specific about the affected common property). This was the norm prior to the current interpretations, but it is not certain that bylaws drafted in this way will survive a challenge.

                     Can anyone see a way forward?

                    #22696
                    Whale
                    Flatchatter

                      Gees….. indecisive Lawyers!

                      As a non-lawyer I’d vote for the first option, as even though I believe that all owners actually are consenting to the entirety of the Special By-Law (SBL) by virtue of the special resolution (if passed) they make to create it at the General Meeting, nothing’s diminished by individual owners individually consenting to the maintenance conditions of that SBL, providing details of their renovations, of the specific common areas affected, and their Lot number all at the time that renovations are proposed.

                      That’s a step in right direction, but it does nothing to address those renovations involving common property that have been permitted to occur in the past, and about which you should perhaps make your Owners Corporation aware at the General Meeting; specifically if your Motion is floundering.

                      #22697
                      Anonymous

                        Wow, I can see why a lot of people would want to move into your apartment block before anything was implemented and stay there! It sounds almost as good as owning their own property. At the same time, to address your issue, it may be a fair idea to see if you can get the residents to meet up and figure out whether they agree with the by-law being passed as obviously they are not going to be happy to be charged fees for something that they’ve not been penalised for for such a long time! Be careful, people might start moving out!

                        #22727
                        Curly
                        Flatchatter

                          Can someone tell me definately who pays for the reinstatement of the common property if illegal renovations such as removal of internal wall, creation of second bathroom,  window converted to a sliding door have been done?

                          Villa owners have done this without a SBL being registered and I can’t see any history of any notices to comply ever having been sent out.

                          If the answer is the OC how are they ever going to be allowed to get in to the villas to reinstate the common property? 

                          #22732
                          Whale
                          Flatchatter

                            Dan – whilst the Owners Corporation (O/C) can require the Lot Owner to undertake the works, I’m of the opinion that as its Common Property (CP) is involved the O/C should commission and supervise the entirety of the works, with entry if necessary being obtained under the provisions of Sect 65, and with the O/C’s total costs (i.e. for works on its CP and any required on/for the Owner) being recovered in accordance with Sect 63. Of course each party could attend to their own works, but as that’s generally neither cost effective nor desirable my definitive answer to your question is… the O/C.

                            However (there’s always at least one in Strata) whilst Sect 65 refers the an O/C entering a Lot to undertake works that are required under the Strata Schemes Management Act (SCMA), and Sect 63 permits the O/C to recover its costs of undertaking those works where those would otherwise be the “duty” of the Lot Owner, and strident advice on both of those may well “encourage” those past renovators in your Plan to agree to the O/C’s proposed Special By-Law (SBL), if they’re not convinced and that SBL fails to pass the vote at your AGM, then you could hit the proverbial (renovated) brick wall.

                            Why?

                            Well if that SBL fails to pass then I can’t see that same group of Owners (as the O/C) applying for Orders under Sect 140 – which I see as the approach most applicable if the O/C’s approach was that it IS prepared to retrospectively consent to all past renovations IF the Order makes the current Owner/s of affected Lot/s responsible for the maintenance and repair of those.

                            I don’t wish to be personally critical, but on a generic basis I have to observe that after almost 4 years on this Forum I can’t understand how Owners can still undertake substantial renovations to their Lots that involve the CP with no other Owners being aware of the requirements for obtaining prior consent to those, or even seeking guidance or advice from their Strata Manager if and until it’s too late! 

                            Fingers crossed that your SBL passes and that your Strata Manager has both the knowledge and the commitment to bring all those past renovators into the fold.

                            #22731
                            Curly
                            Flatchatter

                              Thanks Whale …..for the record I am the Dan3101 who recently posted Changing Strata Management – have  I covered my bases. I expect our Strata Manager isn’t going to care about too much as we have a motion on our AGM agenda to terminate them which I proposed (after only living here a year).

                               I fully undertand your frustrations about owners getting renovations done without permission. The reality for me was that the Strata Manager didn’t tell me I needed a SBL he said I only needed to get the ECs approval for my major renovations.  I knew this was wrong and got a Special Bylaw drawn up and prepared a motion for my renovation SBL for the upcoming AGM. If I was given the wrong information perhaps some of the other owners were too.

                              So with a motion to terminate the current strata management company, a motion to appoint a new company,  a motion for my renovation SBL and a motion for a generic renovation SBL all proposed by me all I can say is bring on the AGM…….

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