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19/03/2015 at 9:01 am #9950
NB: This post has been edited to avoid identifying the specific building
Our strata bldg is on a beach and is in a council area that clearly has an LP that outlaws short term rental. One particular strata parasite (your words but oh so true!) and immediate family own several apartments in this building – they themselves don’t live here. All the units are clearly listed on AirBnB and other short term sites as being available for short term rental (some for as little as one night). Our body corporate and individual owners have tried for the past few years to get council to enforce the LP however they bury their heads in the sand and simply stop responding to emails. What do we do and where do we turn? This particular individual and family can afford to pay any and all fines that may be directed at them and simply continue to do as they please ignoring the almost constant requests from the body corporate to cease the short term rental and stick to the minimum 3 month by-laws, not to mention breaking the council laws on a daily basis. This family bullies the owners, sometimes in a threatening way to the point where there is now a police file and an AVO….but nothing changes and they continue to get away with it – laughing all the way to the bank. Any advice would be welcome. Where do we turn when the council turns their backs and files it in the too hard basket?
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19/03/2015 at 6:26 pm #23250
What do your by-laws say about short-term lets?
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
22/03/2015 at 3:29 pm #23268Thank you for your response. It is against our bylaws. The minimum rental period is 3 months. This was voted on and approved and is clearly stated in our by-laws. We have tried to enforce this but have been unsuccessful because the owner just ignores the by-laws.
We actually believe that council is intimidated by this man and his family as we all are. He has keyed all of our cars, sends hundreds of emails a week complaining or commenting on anything and everything just to be difficult, and has physically abused the president of our Owners Corp. Owners have moved from the building because they can’t put up with him anymore.
This family have produced bogus leases in the past that say that someone is renting for 3 months. We clearly see the holiday renters checking in and out and it corresponds with the calendars on AirBnB.
It is so difficult to prove any of this. We started to ask all of the tenants arriving to his apartments a few questions when they checked in such as how long are you here? Where did you find the listing? Have you been given a list of the building bylaws like how to use the barbecue, laundry etc? When we tried this, the owner sent a threatening letter saying that it was harassment and that they would take action if this continued. We need this information to try to get council to take any action as they need ‘proof’.
Ironically, the rental schedules are clearly there for all to see on the booking calendars on AirBnB, however council says that the rental availability calendar is not enough proof as it might not be accurate. We suspect that someone in council is on-side with the tenant and is burying everything. (One council member uses AirBnB to rent a floor in his home for holiday let and is friendly with the family.) We don’t have an issue with short term leasing in people’s homes if that is what they choose to do and it is legal. In this case, renting short term in our very expensive building is against both council and strata laws and it just keeps going on without any consequences. It isn’t right that we bought into this building as our home and we are living in a holiday hotel!
Regardless of the strata laws against it, it is clearly against the council laws and that should be enough for council to take action. How do we enforce this and force council to do something??? Sorry for the very lengthy rant but we are all very over it and don’t know what to do.
22/03/2015 at 6:12 pm #23270You may be able to cut off this problem at source. Contact Airbnb and tell them that this family is in breach of their own policy – they have lied to Airbnb by ticking the box that says they have permission to list their flat.
Airbnb told me that they respond very quickly to complaints like that. Email them on response@airbnb.com and tell them you have been advise to do so by Jimmy Thomson at the Sydney Morning Herald.
If that doesn’t work (and I’m checking the email address with them right now), your options, given that you have tried everything else, are to talk to a strata lawyer about getting Supreme Court orders against this family.
The point is, it’s one thing paying NCAT fines. It’s another entirely flouting a court order – that’s a criminal offence and they could be arrested.
Or you could try one more time to hit them with everything you’ve got and let them know exactly what you plan to do.
Firstly, organise an executive committee meeting which should have the following items on the agenda:
1. To hire a specialist strata lawyer to pursue anyone in the building who is illegally letting their flats as holiday rentals.
2. If necessary, arrange for a general meeting to authorise legal action at the Supreme Court.
3. Hire a reputable private investigator (as recommended by the lawyer) to gather the evidence required to pursue the case at the NSW Civil Administration Tribunal, the Supreme Court and at council.
4. Send a letter to all residents telling them that you are planning to do this and to warn those who are breaching these laws and who refuse to stop doing so that they will a) be forced by law to stop doing so and b) charged costs related to proving they are breaking the law.
5. Send Notices To Comply to owners suspected of breaching the by-law relating to short-term lets.
6. Take action at the NSW Civil Administration Tribunal under section 119 for failure to provide details of leases or sub-leases which must, by law, be supplied within 14 days of a tenant taking occupation. Maximum fine $550.
7. Authorise members of the executive committee to talk to print media, television and radio to discuss the problems and the failure of the local council to act on complaints.
8. Get quotes for the installation of security cameras to cover car parking areas where cars have been vandalised and the common property areas, specifically those near units that have been illegally let.
Then make sure this family gets copies of the agenda and the decisions taken at the subsequent meeting. They may well ignore the threat, so be prepared to follow through … otherwise, I’d be looking to sell before they destroy the values of all the properties in your scheme.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
23/03/2015 at 8:47 pm #23277I really appreciate your prompt and detailed response. This is Janicesyd’s husband and I am Secretary of our Executive Committee. This evening I tried to contact Airbnb as you suggested using the email address you listed above. Half as we expected, the email “bounced” – but it bounced with a long winded message from Airbnb (so technically they received it – they just wanted to deny receiving it!).
I had heard about this – that there seems to be no direct contact email or phone No. where you can report a breach to Airbnb. Jimmy, do you know of any other email or phone contact for them? Airbnb is as cunning as a fox.
Thanks again for your help.
24/03/2015 at 9:05 pm #23285I’m curious to hear if you get a reply from AirBNB. If email doesn’t work – their spokesmodels on twitter might be embarrassed into doing something:
25/03/2015 at 1:19 pm #23291We’ve got about a third of our owners letting short-term. Airbnb is just one platform that facilitates this activity. It’s a global problem and legislators need to consider what this activity is doing to the affordable housing market. We are always hearing about the crisis in the housing market. I reckon Legislators need to act…and NOW!
One really great site I’d recommend everyone to scrutinise is http://www.sharebetter.org. This is what New York is doing.
below is a reply I got from Airbnb last November. They successfully shift all responsibility away from themselves.
I’m Joey and I work here at Airbnb. Thank you for contacting us regarding your concerns with a listing in your building
Airbnb is an online platform and does not own, operate, manage or control accommodations, nor do we verify private contract terms or arbitrate complaints from third parties.
We do, however, require hosts to represent that they have all rights to list their accommodations.
To that end, we are committed to notifying hosts about complaints such as yours, provided we (i) receive a formal written letter (scanned electronically as an image or .pdf) that (ii) details your specific allegation, and (iii) fully identifies the Airbnb user to whom you believe it applies (please include links).
Although we will not verify, evaluate or arbitrate the terms you identify, we will provide a complete copy of your complaint to the host we will ask them whether they wish to remove their listing.
Again, thank you for contacting us about this.
Joey B
http://www.airbnb.com/help28/03/2015 at 3:47 pm #23298Hi Jimmy,
Thanks for the SMH article today. Absolutely spot-on.
We met with the General Manager and Compliance Manager at the Council this week. Finally, the respective units were inspected by the Council Officers (they had to issue a “Notice to Enter” since the owner refused to respond to requests to inspect) and a report of their findings has been sent to the Council’s lawyers for consideration. Assuming the lawyers confirm a breach of the LEP, the Council then has to put it to a vote as to whether ratepayers funds should be used to fight it at the Land and Environment Court. They told me that based on similar situations at other councils in the area it is unlikely that funds will be allocated. As the cartoon stated “Que Sera (Whatever will BnB will be)”.
I’d like the Council Managers to consider the rebuke Gosford Council received in this ruling (sorry for the opposition publication!):
Still no reply from Airbnb. I will try the Twitter approach.
29/03/2015 at 7:38 pm #23311Hi janicesyd
It took 3.5 years of constant – constant! – lobbying to get our Council to act. Can see from the Land & Environment Court’s website that our short-term letting culprit was back in court with Council last Friday…for the fourth time. Watch this space.
If you can bear it, don’t ever give up. Your Council is duty bound to Act…that was the route taken in our case, despite the truly horrific ongoing threats levelled at those opposed to short-term letting.
And remember, should something major happen – caused by those short-term letting – and your Insurer doesn’t pay up, you and every owner has unlimited liability.cyou could lose your home and contents plus life savings, super etc.
You go girl!
30/03/2015 at 2:22 pm #23314Suggestion, Apart from the Legel remedies I would suggest getting the BC to install combination locks, that can have their code changed easily, and issue the code to Only Bona fide tennants, even if one of the holiday makers gets it, it can be simply changed and because you issued it to someone who may have claimed to be a long term tennant or lease holder don’t issue a changed number to the next holiday maker as you had in fact issued it to the ‘tennant’ or ‘leaseholder’. Better still if you see one of the holiday makers move out change it, next holiday make can’t get in!
You need need to put a CCTV camera at the door make sure door is not damaged or wedged open.
31/03/2015 at 9:45 pm #23325With owners who consistently ignore minimum rental terms as they bank the profits from short term rentals would this system be legal?
1) Send a letter to all owners telling them that the minimum rental of ?months is to be strictly enforced following a 30 day period to enable them to cancel forward bookings
2) Advise owners that access fobs will be cancelled for all users with the exception of the owner or tenants with a lease for over the minimum period.
I couldn’t access the Victorian Forum tonight as it is being updated, but this topic covers us all.
In our case, all the owners could do would be to take us to VCAT and complain that we are not allowing them to break the rules!
06/04/2015 at 1:35 pm #23341Again, this is Janicesyd’s hubby. FYI, Airbnb sent me a word-for-word auto response (from “Lucas”) as per Millie’s post above from “Joey”.
After receiving this, I went back to “Lucas” with:
Hi Lucas
Yes, I have read the same “stock” email response sent to others suffering from Airbnb hosts that have lied in their applications.
Frankly, why would you even suggest these rogue hosts would consider removing their listings as a result of a formal complaint passed on by Airbnb. Lucas, these parasites are liars in the first place. Airbnb simply enables their dishonesty.
All care an no responsibility as far as Airbnb is concerned.
Airbnb should be ashamed.
Surprisingly I then received an actual response to my message from “Lucas” as follows:
Hi , I do understand this is a contentious issue and I’m sorry you feel this way.
Direct communication can be an effective resolution tool, as part of this we are offering to pass along your communication with the account holders whose listing URL links can be provided in the letter I mention in my prior message.
I know this does not immediately address your concerns but we would like to help out in this way, and perhaps help open a dialogue if it is an option you are open to pursuing.
Warm Regards,
Lucas
My last communication with “Lucas” was as follows:
Hi Lucas
Believe me; communication like this will have ZERO effect on this particular host. He has been asked to cease and dissist by both our Owners Corporation as well as our local council. He simply ignores everyone and continues to pocket his profits at the expense of all other residents.
Our only option is to fork out about $100K on legal fees to fight him in the Land & Environment Court. He is a very wealthy man who is only getting wealthier thanks to Airbnb. I had hoped that by stopping the illegal listing on the Internet it would be a start in stopping this parasite.
Regards
Since then, total silence from Airbnb. Their “screening” of hosts is a joke. Frankly, there should be an authority who can shut-down companies like Airbnb.
07/04/2015 at 1:44 pm #23361Touché Janicesyd and Hubbie!
Individuals will get nowhere trying to fight this. This is what I reckon has to happen:
- The NSW/VIC Planning Ministers (read, other States as well) issue subpoenas to obtain all Airbnb’s client records.
- The Aust Tax Office then picks up all those who are dodging the payment of tax. That’ll hurt!!!
- The Planning Ministers work with the State Ministers for Local Government. They in turn work with Local Governments to round up those who are breaking the Development Consents on their buildings.
- They then take a Class Action to the Land & Environment Court and drive a steak through the heart of those using Airbnb to breach their development consents. This will send a very loud and clear signal to all others who are using other platforms to breach Residential Zoning Consents.
Remember this important thing: Airbnb have protected themselves. The onus for complying with all laws rests squarely with those using Airbnb’s internet platform to advertise and sell their properties to Tourists/Visitors.
I’ve worked on this issue for nearly four years. The resistance is massive and viscious. WHY? Because there is so much money involved. And there very much appears to be resistance at Government Level because some very high-profile an powerful people – Politicians included – are neck deep in this practice, which our Council, the City of Sydney, classifies as “ILLEGAL”. It is time that these people were called to account. They have inflicted very real pain and damage on those who have simply questioned the legality their actions.
Also ask yourself the question: “Who owns Stayz and what influence do they have with/over Governments?”
Here’s what is currently happening with Airbnb in Sydney:
https://rentingyourplace.com/ci/AirDnA-Sydney-AU-Airbnb-Data-and-Analytics.html
Think Docklands in Melbourne. Think Barangaroo and Darling Harbour in Sydney…do all these new Strata owners who have paid a mozza to live in their spanking new buildings want to put up with the trash that we live with daily?
Our Legislators fall over themselves fighting to win their positions of power. It’s time they used that power to work for those who’ve elected them.
In November 2013 Brad Hazzard (then NSW Planning Minister) said in Parliament that there was a shortfall of 50,000 residential properties in Sydney alone. Add to this the reports of some 30,000 additional Airbnb properties that have jumped into the mix and see what this is doing to the affordable housing market.
And ask your friends who rent apartments how easy it is to find an affordable, liveable property?
Our Politicians ignore this matter at their/our peril. They must do something about this massive problem.
Write to your Premier and copy every Minister you can think of, plus your State Member and the CEO of your Local Council. And keep writing! Keep writing!
Go. Go. Go!
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› Flat Chat Strata Forum › Airbnb and holiday lets › Current Page