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21/11/2013 at 4:50 pm #9232
In the ACT, is a unit’s terrace/balcony door usually common property?
Who would usually repair and maintain them?
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21/11/2013 at 8:10 pm #20266
In the ACT there are Class A and Class B units. Class A generally covers apartments which are built with multi storey construction, with lots one above the other. Here the common property walls (including external windows and doors) are maintained by the Owners Corporation, similar to NSW.
Class B units are town houses and villas. Unlike in NSW here the responsibility for maintenance rests with the owner of each lot.
In either case the Owners Corp is required to insure all the buildings. So if for example there is damage to your doors caused by an external event you may be able to claim from the Owners Corp insurance.
22/11/2013 at 10:25 am #20269Thanks for the response.
It’s a Class A unit. It’s a repair/maintenance issue. The external terrace/courtyard doors no longer close properly and can’t even be locked. They seem to be out of alignment or maybe the rollers have worn out. This is a ground floor unit and the doors open to a private walled terrace/courtyard area. The unit above has a balcony instead and a similar sliding door arrangement to that balcony.
The OC manager has now told me maintenance of these doors is an owner responsibility because “The door is not typically considered to be a common area issue, they form part of the unit that the unit occupier has sole access to, therefore the doors would be considered to be the individual owners issue to repair.”
It seems the OC manager considers “sole access” to be a reason for the OC not to maintain them. The balcony doors would be sole access too.
Is the OC manager correct?
22/11/2013 at 8:17 pm #20273Hi again
Don’t agree with the OC Manager – nothing here to see regarding “sole access”. If it’s common property then the OC is obliged to maintain it, end of story.
DaveB
See
UNIT TITLES (MANAGEMENT) ACT 2011 – SECT 24
Maintenance obligations
(1) An owners corporation for a units plan must maintain the following:(a) for a staged development—the common property included in a completed stage of the development;
(b) for a development that is not a staged development—the common property;
(c) other property that it holds;
(d) the defined parts of any building containing class A units (whether or not the defined parts are common property);
and here are the “defined parts”
“defined parts”, of a building containing class A units, means—
(a) the following structures in the building, if load-bearing:
(i) walls;
(ii) columns;
(iii) footings;
(iv) slabs;
(v) beams; or
(b) any part of a balcony on the building.
@Austman said:
Thanks for the response.It’s a Class A unit. It’s a repair/maintenance issue. The external terrace/courtyard doors no longer close properly and can’t even be locked. They seem to be out of alignment or maybe the rollers have worn out. This is a ground floor unit and the doors open to a private walled terrace/courtyard area. The unit above has a balcony instead and a similar sliding door arrangement to that balcony.
The OC manager has now told me maintenance of these doors is an owner responsibility because “The door is not typically considered to be a common area issue, they form part of the unit that the unit occupier has sole access to, therefore the doors would be considered to be the individual owners issue to repair.”
It seems the OC manager considers “sole access” to be a reason for the OC not to maintain them. The balcony doors would be sole access too.
Is the OC manager correct?
23/11/2013 at 9:31 am #20274Thanks. I’ve already quoted that part of the Unit Tiles Act to the OC manager.
The OC manager is pointing out the “if load-bearing” condition and has stated that the sliding doors would have to be load-bearing to be considered an OC responsibility. I suspect they are not load-bearing although they do form a complete (glass) “wall” between the interior living room and the exterior courtyard (or balcony).
Being an external window/door, I would have thought that alone would make it, at least partly, an OC responsibility.
It might depend on how the boundary lines are drawn. I note the advice below from VBCS (for Victoria, but the interpretation is the important part):
Q: Our balcony door is damaged and won’t close properly.
A: If the boundary of the lot extends past the wall to the edge of the balcony, the door will be within the owners lot and the responsibility of the owner to maintain.
I’ve not seen the boundary plan for the unit but on other plans that I have seen there’s usually a line drawn between a lot’s interior and exterior parts . Even if that line exists, I understand that “Median” is the default boundary division in the ACT (and probably applies here as the unit was built in the 1980s). So that would mean the OC and the owner are 50/50 responsible for lot perimeter walls, windows, doors unless if they are load-bearing?
Tricky!
23/11/2013 at 12:55 pm #20277@DaveB said:
In the ACT there are Class A and Class B units. Class A generally covers apartments which are built with multi storey construction, with lots one above the other.We have the same in QLD Class A (= Building format) and class B (= Standard format).
Problem is in QLD the developers classes everything as Class A because this is more beneficial to investors ( because Strata is responsible for more of the building and so less hassle for the investors). This really p*sses me off as I live in one of these complexes and I’ve been unable to discover any development in Brisbane that uses Class B for townhouses and standalone villas.
This is a case of developers (and council) abusing perfectly logical legislation for their own benefit.
Do you have the same problem in ACT.
23/11/2013 at 1:16 pm #20278I’m not so sure it’s common property because it depends if the balcony door is considered part of the balcony or part of the building.
(b) any part of a balcony on the building. (common property)The door is def not load bearing and so it could be considered part of the lot and owners responsibility. The Act doesn’t mention doors or windows as being defined parts and this omission implies that it could be owners responsibility if it is not considered part of the balcony.23/11/2013 at 1:45 pm #20279@kiwipaul said:
The Act doesn’t mention doors or windows as being defined parts and this omission implies that it could be owners responsibility if it is not considered part of the balcony.
Just to add that I’ve seen in various legal judgements and opinions that windows and doors are considered to be components of walls. So a “wall” would include any door, window or other structure within the wall and their working parts.
24/11/2013 at 10:16 am #20282
@Austman said:Just to add that I’ve seen in various legal judgements and opinions that windows and doors are considered to be components of walls. So a “wall” would include any door, window or other structure within the wall and their working parts.
Were these legal judgements in ACT or another state because each state has different rules. In QLD the balcony door would definately be owners reasponsibility but if these ruling were in ACT you have your ans.24/11/2013 at 12:25 pm #20283The rulings are from all over Australia. Doors and windows are considered to be parts of a wall – parts of the wall construction.
The answer I suspect will be how the sub-division is drawn: Is the wall which contains the door marked as a lot boundary? I And if the wall which contains the door is load-bearing or not?
25/11/2013 at 5:43 pm #20287And now I have seen the actual Units Plan (sub-division plan) and there is a boundary line drawn between the unit’s interior and the unit’s exterior courtyard (called a unit subsidiary on the plan).
So this means the sliding doors to the courtyard are part of a boundary wall. And as it’s an external wall of the building, the following applies (from Unit Title Act 2001):
If a class A unit or a unit subsidiary is bounded by an external wall of the building containing the units, then, unless otherwise indicated in the relevant unit title application or units plan—
(a) the boundary of the unit or unit subsidiary lies along the centre of the wall; and
(b) the part of the wall outside the boundary is common property.So now the OC manager is telling me that the interior half of the sliding doors is an owner responsibility while the exterior half is an OC responsibility. And, I guess, some repairs would be split 50/50.
I never thought I’d champion Interior Face! (haha) But it seems a lot simpler.
26/11/2013 at 1:27 am #20293Austman,
I’m not familiar with Vic and ACT laws.
But if you look at NSW doors, the sliding pane is always on the inside of the centre line, and the fixed pane is always on the outside of the centre line.
That’s if you want to get that pedantic.
In my experience, sliding doors get misaligned (and fail to lock) for two reasons:
1) The rollers are worn (or flat) and should be replaced. Cost $100-$200.
2) The whole building has become infinitesimally trapezoidal due to subsidence. This might be fixable by adjustment of the roller height. Cost $100-$200.
26/11/2013 at 11:46 am #20295@Austman said:
So this means the sliding doors to the courtyard are part of a boundary wall. And as it’s an external wall of the building, the following applies (from Unit Title Act 2001):
I’m also not familiar with ACT law.
But your interpretation seems to imply any doors or windows facing onto the courtyard are Strata responsibility. Also the doors don’t front onto common property they front onto a private courtyard and so it doesn’t comply to part (b) of your quote.
(b) the part of the wall outside the boundary is common property.Also you have previously advised that any window or door in a load bearing wall is Strata responsibility and this would imply the strata is responsible for internal doors (and windows) within the lot that are part of load bearing walls which is unlikely IMHO.26/11/2013 at 8:39 pm #20307It’s not just my interpretation, it’s the OC’s manager’s. I tried to see how the act supported it.
The act seems pretty clear that “external walls” are at least a 50/50 OC/owner responsibility but any wall is a 100% OC responsibility if load-bearing. It doesn’t seem to matter what the “external walls” face on to. The only other possible interpretation is that the wall between the unit’s interior and the external courtyard is an internal wall – I suppose that’s possible As for “(b) the part of the wall outside the boundary is common property”. I read “part of the wall” only is common property, where the boundary lies along the centre of the wall.. So the wall is partly common property but not the courtyard beyond.
Why would a boundary line be drawn on the Units Plan if it was absolutely meaningless to do so? The unit’s interior and exterior could have been drawn as one area and I’d agree then that the sliding doors between them would be an owner responsibility if they were non load-bearing. I own another apartment where it’s drawn this way.
And yes any wall, anywhere, if load-bearing is an OC responsibility. And yes, I think that would include any door in an internal load-bearing wall. And that’s the OC manager’s opinion too. A door in a load-bearing wall needs to be specially constructed – or at least its frame does!
27/11/2013 at 9:53 am #20309
@Kangaroo said:
Austman,I’m not familiar with Vic and ACT laws.
But if you look at NSW doors, the sliding pane is always on the inside of the centre line, and the fixed pane is always on the outside of the centre line.
That’s if you want to get that pedantic.
In my experience, sliding doors get misaligned (and fail to lock) for two reasons:
1) The rollers are worn (or flat) and should be replaced. Cost $100-$200.
2) The whole building has become infinitesimally trapezoidal due to subsidence. This might be fixable by adjustment of the roller height. Cost $100-$200.
Thanks Kangaroo. Pedantic is often exactly what strata law is!
I just took a look a my own sliding external door. It’s a well known brand, sold all over Australia. The sliding door part is on the outside.
As for where a boundary “centre-point” actually lies in structures like doors and windows, it’s clearly defined in VIC: Subdivision (Registrar’s Requirements) Regulations 2011:
10 Use of buildings to define boundaries (c) Median (wall, window, door, balustrade): lies along the mid point between exposed surfaces of any wall, window, door, and balustrade of the relevant part of a building.
So in VIC at least it’s the exposed surfaces that are the determining points, not any centre line. So the boundary can vary even within a door or window structure!
Does anyone know if this is the same in the ACT?
27/11/2013 at 10:52 am #20310@Austman said:
As for where a boundary … ” in VIC at least it’s the exposed surfaces that are the determining points, not any centre line. So the boundary can vary even within a door or window structure!Does anyone know if this is the same in the ACT?
Can’t help you on ACT but I know in NSW in 1973 the boundary of common property was shifted from the centre line of the external wall to the edge of the internal space (or the paint on the internal side of the wall, if you like).
I have sent a question to the ACT authorities in search of a definitive answer to this.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
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