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  • #9136
    Anonymous

      “With that in mind, he (Mr Roberts) said, the new model bylaws will, for the first time, cover smoke drift and allow pets by default, rather than banning them as is now the case.”

       

      The following is from the Needham case,  Needham  v OC SP 49401 (Strata and Community Schemes) [2013] NSWCTTT 465 (17 September 2013)

      “….which provided that animals could not be kept on the lot or the common property without the consent of the Owners Corporation and that that consent could not be unreasonably withheld.”
      M Eftimiou, Member Consumer, Trader and Tenancy Tribunal

      The position in the SP described by Member Eftimiou is the default model by-law, the one where an owner can have a pet with approval; that is the default by-law which is what Mr Roberts calls a ban.

      I still ask has the Minister ever read the current model by-laws.
      Option A is the default, option C is the ban.

      SSMR Schedule 2 Model By-laws for Residential Strata Schemes.

      17   Keeping of animals

      Note. Select option A, B or C. If no option is selected, option A will apply.

      Option A

      (1)  Subject to section 49 (4) of the Act, an owner or occupier of a lot must not, without the prior written approval of the owners corporation, keep any animal (except fish kept in a secure aquarium on the lot) on the lot or the common property.

      (2)  The owners corporation must not unreasonably withhold its approval of the keeping of an animal on a lot or the common property.

      Option B

      (1)  Subject to section 49 (4) of the Act, an owner or occupier of a lot must not, without the prior written approval of the owners corporation, keep any animal (except a cat, a small dog or a small caged bird, or fish kept in a secure aquarium on the lot) on the lot or the common property.

      (2)  The owners corporation must not unreasonably withhold its approval of the keeping of an animal on a lot or the common property.

      (3)  If an owner or occupier of a lot keeps a cat, small dog or small caged bird on the lot then the owner or occupier must:

      (a)  notify the owners corporation that the animal is being kept on the lot, and

      (b)  keep the animal within the lot, and

      (c)  carry the animal when it is on the common property, and

      (d)  take such action as may be necessary to clean all areas of the lot or the common property that are soiled by the animal.

      Option C

      Subject to section 49 (4) of the Act, an owner or occupier of a residential lot must not keep any animal on the lot or the common property.

       

      If A is a ban what does Mr Roberts call C?

      The issue highlighted in the submission period of the strata reform process was that existing owners have problems with existing situations. Existing OC’s can’t be reasonable and refuse to change their position.

      The Minister not only misleads with his take on the reform but also fails to address the issue.

    Viewing 8 replies - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
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    • #20041
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        @SMO said:
        “With that in mind, he (Mr Roberts) said, the new model bylaws will, for the first time, cover smoke drift and allow pets by default, rather than banning them as is now the case.”

        Firstly, you need to discern the difference between a direct quote and my reportage. Secondly, although the detail hasn’t been published yet, the thrust of the proposed by-law will be changed from “no pets without consent” to “pets, but with conditions”.

        This is nitpicking stuff.  It may not have the word ‘ban” in it but the current by-law is a very effective block on pet ownership for those who choose to employ it that way.

        In any case, as we all know, any building that really, really doesn’t want pets can ban them by changing the model by-law before even the first AGM.

        The significance of this proposed change in the model by-law is to take into account the fact that most people moving into a new building, especially first-time strata owners, have no idea what by-laws are, what they mean and how hard they are to change.

        Once by-laws are passed (by a simple majority) at the first AGM they are bloody hard to change and a lot of people find themselves living in pro-pets buildings (according to the majority view) with “no-pets” ECs gathering up their 25 percent “no” vote every time there’s any danger of the status quo being threatened.

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #20091
        Kangaroo
        Flatchatter

          Minister Roberts actually said: 

          While many schemes would be happy to allow pets, it is often the default rule that they be banned, and potential owners and tenants are not always in a strong position to see the by-laws changed.

          SMO makes a valid point.

          Mr Roberts used the word “banned” and that is not the current default.

          The good news is that your reportage was correct.

          But SMO’s real point was that if Mr Roberts only changes the default By-Law for new schemes, how does that help existing owners with existing situations.

          Seeing as he’s changing the Act, could he not require all strata schemes to register (free of charge) a replacement By-Law concerning pets?

          But, he’d better give everyone some better options.

          Birds in particular like to have a companion. Why do the pro-forma options limit it to one bird? And why only one of each species? Why not one of each species? And some fish in an aquarium. At least fish is plural. But perhaps the size of the “secure aquarium” should be limited, lest the 5,000 gallon wall-to-wall aquarium break and cause problems for the downstairs unit.

          And, shouldn’t “acceptable” animals be defined? What about reptiles (snakes), rodents (rats), and arachnids (spiders)? I’m planning on getting a donkey myself (personal use only).

          And, if he wants By-Laws to reflect current community thinking, why not make it easier to change By-Laws by requiring only an ordinary resolution rather than a special resolution?

          #20113

          Kangaroo, you are making so much sense! I just posted on another thread (before reading this thread – my post is awaiting moderation so Jimmy will probably pick this up & direct me to this thread – sorry Jimmy).

          In my SP, where Option A is the default, owners & tenants (& even a past Managing Agent) considered part (2) to rule out part (1) so they felt they could do what they liked regarding pets. The result? In a tiny one bedroom unit, a large dog, 2 small dogs, a cat, a snake, live mice (to feed the snake). In another tiny one bedroom unit, a yappy small dog who would bark, cry, howl & rip apart the screen door (bye-bye bond) when the owner was away (the front door was left open). In a 2 bedroom unit, 1 very loud bird who the owner liked to sing to, again, very loudly on an otherwise quiet & peaceful mornings/afternoon, a small yappy dog who was never on a leash & defecated on common property (not picked up by the owner) & would rush as residents and visitors (including small children), chase our beloved wildlife away etc. (I know Jimmy will say this is an extreme case – no arguments there but after being through this to some degree over & over, it get’s real old).

          People wonder why owners do not like pets, I have had approximately 10 tenants in 11 years & experienced other tenants of other owners (I live at the property as well as lease a unit there) & I am sorry to say, they ALL have been irresponsible in some way (noise, collecting mail, clothes line issues, damage to the unit, etc) & those with pets have been particuarly so, – maybe we have just had back luck but now pets are a zero tolerance issue for our SP. The other owner/occupiers agree. The legislation can change anyway they want it to but we will NOT be forced to put up with irresponsible tenants & their pets no matter what!

           

           

          #20117
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster

            We had a really interesting session at the OCN seminar yesterday (November 9) where a strata consultant explained how the behaviour of everyone in a building sets the tone not only for tenants as well as owner-residents, but affects the value of your property.

            Rents and property prices can head south as soon as uncollected junk  mail builds up, damaged  common property isn’t repaired and the whole place looks like a backpacker hostel after a big night.

            I think in your position, I would be starting a discussion – with tenants and owners – about the kind of building you live in and what you want to do about it, if anything.

            It sounds to me that just a little tightening up of the rules would make a huge difference to everyone’s lives.  Hire a retired person to tidy up around common property (and remove abandoned clothes from the line) so no one has to lift a finger but the place already looks better.

            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
            #20126

            Thanks. I wish it was as easy as tightening up the rules however, when things happen like informing a tenant that the unit is non-smoking & then when doing the final inspection, due to the stench, I ask them if they smoked inside the unit & they say “I know it’s non-smoking but I had to as it was cold outside in winter on the terrace.” or informing the tenant that one small pet is OK, then finding they have installed 7 pets or informing the tenant that they should not place candles on the shelves of the dividing wall as it will burn the wood above & then have them tell me “I know you told me not to do it but I did burn candles there & the wood is burned, sorry.” plus many more examples like this (including a particularly interesting episode where they had a huge McCaw bird in a cage inside a tiny 1 bedroom unit plus numerous mouse cages – talk about stench), I just have to shake my head & hope for the best with the next tenant. In my experience, they tend to do what they want despite any rules. Guess I have to laugh, or I’ll cry or sell the investment property & invest my hard earned cash elsewhere. I’ll look forward to the adventures leasing my place brings with the new legislation. Good luck everyone! 

            #20129
            Whale
            Flatchatter

              That’s why, just like with the Strata Scheme itself, you’re almost always better of by self-managing – where the matters that you raise can all be included as “additional agreed terms” in a Residential Tenancy Agreement, be acknowledged up-front therein by both you and your tenant, and in that way there should be no discussions or excuses about not knowing or about you claiming all or part of the Bond to rectify damage caused. 

              #20152

              I actually do self-manage my investment property (always have) AND I live next door! Some tenants agree to all the terms up-front then proceed to do exactly what they want – it’s all “yes, yes, of course” at first then it’s excuses &/or arguments about why they should have the right to do as they please, which comes before the welfare of the property or other residents. I pick them up on breeches when I notice or when other residents complain. Although, I am happy to say, I have had some wonderful tenants & have remained personal friends with them after they leave but I still would not want them feeling like they have a say in the running of the scheme to suit their personal circumstances at the time. Most of my tenants stay 6 months however a few have stayed 2-3 years. Luckily, most don’t get away with it for long. Also, self-managing the strata scheme is becoming more & more attractive.

              #20160
              kaindub
              Flatchatter

                Strata Plan of 4 by the beach

                 

                I manage my own unit like your self. Any conditions that I agree with the tenant are documented in the lease. It then becomes part of the contract.

                I also inspect my property regularly. Any breaches of the conditions that have been AGREED with the tenant I pick up on.

                if it’s such that i think it’s serious enough I will inform them that they have breached the lease and ask them to leave.

                The hardest part about self managing (whether its a rental or the strata) is the separation of the personal from the business. It’s hard to tell someone who you have got to know to ‘get in line’. They often see it differently, and take it personally (more so than just a straight business arrangement)

                Whilst I remain friendly with my tenants, i don’t EVER become part of their lives no matter how nice they appear

                Robert

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