Flat Chat Strata Forum Common Property Current Page

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  • #8558

    In our Complex we have a owner wishing to purchase part of common property so he can add a second bathroom to his apartment . The common Property forms part of a pump area .

    Never have come across a request like this . Any coments or information would be appreciated.Confused

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 18 total)
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  • #17195
    Whale
    Flatchatter

      Morris – if the Owners Corporation (O/C) of your Plan wants to handle the sale / purchase properly, so that the Owner involved bears the costs of acquiring the additional land portion, has that shown on their Property Title instead of on the O/C’s Title, and has the Unit Entitlement for their Lot adjusted to reflect the resultant increase in value due to the extra land and the extension, then the process (in NSW) is:

      1. All Owners need to agree to the sale and to the proposed extension via resolutions at a General Meeting, which I believe needs to be unanimous for the former, so it might as well incorporate the consent for the extension as an “addition to the common property”. 
      2. A Valuer needs to determine the value of the acquired land and of the extended Lot as proposed, and the Unit Entitlement for the latter.
      3. A Surveyor needs to prepare a Plan of Strata Sub Division showing the reduction to the Common Property and the extent of new (larger) Lot.
      4. The Valuer’s Report and the Surveyor’s Plan need to be submitted to Land & Property Information (incorporating the former Land Titles Office) for Registration of the changes to the Common Property and to the Owner’s Lot. 

      The Owner concerned would pay the O/C for the extra land based on the valuation, for the costs of the valuation, the survey/plan, and for the Registration/s.

      Of course your O/C needs to ensure that full access to the pump area is formalised.

      The Owner probably won’t wish to proceed now, but if they do there’s a bit more to be done with the inclusions in the O/C’s consent to the extension, but that may best be covered later Wink.  

      #17198
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        A much simpler way to go about this may be to lease the property to the owner in a agreement that lasts for the life of the strata plan, then allow them exclusive use under a by-law.

        The lease would reflect the enhanced value of the apartment and the increased proportion of unit entitlement that would otherwise have to be calculated and registered. It could also be linked either to CPI or to an agreed periodic valuatuon of properties in the whole building.

        The by-law would shift responsibility for repairs etc to the owner. They would have security of tenure under this arrangement as exclusive use by-laws can only be rescinded with agreement by both parties.

        All costs would be borne by the renovator and this method would allow everything to be done above board without the miles of red tape involved in doing it “properly”.

        As ever, of course, someone at some point need to talk to strata lawyer.

        special

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #17199
        Whale
        Flatchatter

          Jimmy, if by a “lease” you mean a licence under Cl 65B, then that would indeed be a less cumbersome means of allowing the Owner to use as opposed to own a portion of the Common Property.

          I’m just not sure about that Owner then extending the built-construction of their Lot onto the area covered by a licence, after all the proposal is not for a fairly simple construction such as a tacked-on patio or a carport but rather for the more integrated and substantial construction of a bathroom and its associated plumbing, drainage, power etc.

          Not saying it can’t be done under a licence, but just that I wouldn’t do it; but then I am the arch conservative and a stickler for gold-plating everything (a euphemism for doing it properly)!

          #20009
          Cappy
          Flatchatter

            Our SM has advised that only 75% need to agree to a Special Resolution to sell common property. Originally I’d been told it had to be unanimous and Whale said this in an earlier post. I’ve searched the Act without luck – could someone direct me to the correct section?

             

            Thank you. 

            #20011
            Jimmy-T
            Keymaster

              Relauctant as I am to contradict the Mighty Cetacian, I’m tending to agree with your SM.

              The closest I could find to a reference was under the Strata Schemes (Freehold Development) Act 

              25   Transfer or lease of common property

              (1)  A body corporate may, pursuant to a special resolution, execute a transfer or lease of common property other than common property the subject of a lease accepted or acquired by the body corporate under section 19 (2).

              Any more authoritative views gladly accepted.

              The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
              #20012
              kiwipaul
              Flatchatter

                Section 65A of the act allows you to transfer common property to an owner using an exclusive use bylaw which only requires a 75% vote for approval. This would be a permenant transfer to the lot and it could only be resinded with that lots owners written approval.

                I would expect the owner to pay all costs AND a payment to the Strata (admin fund say) to cover the value of the land transferred. This is one situation where the required bylaw should be written by a qualified Strata lawyer.

                Not sure of the advantages of a lease / over a straight forward Exclusive use bylaw. The actual sale option seems to me to be a non starter as it would be too expensive and complicated, whereas the exclusive use and lease are designed for effectively this purpose.

                #20024
                scotlandx
                Strataguru

                  Granting an owner exclusive use of an area of common property and transferring title to an area of common property are two different things.  Although they may have the same effect for most purposes, the legal requirements and consequences are different.

                  Granting exclusive use of part of the common property can be done by way of a by-law which requires approval by special resolution.  You would want to make sure that the by-law set out in enough detail who was responsible for what in relation to that part of the common property. You would also want to look at requiring the person to pay the OC an amount of money for something which is in effect perpetual.

                  However, the property remains the property of the OC at law, i.e. the OC is the party on the title and that means certain things can’t be done with it, for example the person who has exclusive use couldn’t take out a mortgage using that part of the property as security.

                  If the OC wanted to sell and transfer the title of part of the common property there are a number of steps that would have to be taken, including a plan of subdivision that is lodged with the Titles Office, as outlined by Whale.  And I think that does need unanimous resolution because effectively you are taking something away that the OC effectively holds on trust for each of the owners forever, so all the owners have to agree.  You would think the Act would be clearer on that.

                   

                  #20025
                  Whale
                  Flatchatter

                    That’s the line that this (not so) Mighty Cetacian was taking, although I agree with Scotty that the SCMA could be clearer – because even a better use of punctuation and syntax wouldn’t help on this occasion. 

                    #20030
                    Cappy
                    Flatchatter

                      Thanks for all the replies – however I still remain confused as to the need for a 75% or unanimous vote to sell common property. What sort of issues require a unanimous vote?

                      The proposed common property sale in my Strata has followed all the guidelines and requirements however the legal costs incurred by the EC and SM to do so, that is facilitate legally and correctly the investigation, transaction & transfer of title will have outweighed the cost of the income from the sale by some $5000!! If the sale of the common property does NOT go ahead, the Owners Corp will lose the $20,000 spent in legal fees to date.

                      I find it unacceptable – and unbelievable – that our EC and or SM allowed the Owners Corp to run up bills of $20,000 in legals and other expenses etc to investigate a common property sale of $15,000 when costs were only recoverable if the sale proceeded. Surely they should have stated up front that all expenses incurred were the responsibility of the  Lot Owners requesting the purchase.

                      If the $15,000 common property sale is NOT allowed – the Owners Corp will be $20,000 out of pocket. 

                      If the $15,000 common property sale is allowed – the Owners Corp recover their $20,000 legal expenses.

                      An EGM has been called and all Owners have been encouraged to support the sale. To maintain some financial balance, it seems as if we have no options, yet I feel the EC and SM have questions to answer in regard to the position they have created.

                      Your thoughts, comments or suggestions would be appreciated? 

                      #20033
                      leif
                      Flatchatter

                        If the Act (S65B) does state that a special resolution can give exclusive access to common property then the majority (75%) can make all common property out of bound for the minority and in new dwellings that would include but not limited to:

                        • Stairwells
                        • Balconies
                        • Garden
                        • Driveways
                        • Visitor parking’s
                        • Entrance area
                        • Lifts, Elevators

                         

                        This could lead to preventing access in or out of a lot!

                         

                        Or does the word MAY have implied limitations set out in other sections or laws?

                        #20037
                        kiwipaul
                        Flatchatter

                          For a sale I would expect you would not only require unanimous vote but unanimous agreement from those who did not vote as well. The common property belongs to everyone and so every owner needs to agree to the sale.

                          If you have already spent $20,000 and the sale has not completed yet your costs are going to be higher than this. Also if you have spent $20,000 on advise why haven’t they told you what sort of approval is needed.

                          Seems to me you should cut your losses and abandon the sale because the buyer is never going to pay $15,000 plus costs $20,000 +.

                          The buyer should have agreed to pay these costs before any spending was done not the EC.

                          #20045
                          scotlandx
                          Strataguru

                            What a mess, it sounds like Cappy’s OC has been very badly advised.  If someone is asking for the OC to do something or give them something, the first rule is that they pay all the costs, from the outset.

                            There is no way I would agree to what is proposed.  Aside from anything else, has a proper valuation by a qualified valuer been done of the space, so that the owners can consider if it is being properly recompensed?  That is a basic requirement – you take the value of the space once it has had the works done, subtract the amount spent on it, and that amount is how much the owner has to pay the OC.

                            If it did go through I would suggest lodging an application for an order invalidating the decision.  Also get rid of your EC and strata manager.

                            #20047
                            kiwipaul
                            Flatchatter

                              Cappy in fact this spending is illegal as far as I can see if a motion approving this spending was not passed by the OC.

                              80D Legal action to be approved by general meeting
                              (1) An owners corporation or executive committee of an owners corporation must not seek legal advice or the provision of any other legal services, or initiate legal action, for which any payment may be required unless a resolution is passed at a general meeting of the owners corporation approving the seeking of the advice or services or the taking of that action.

                              So unless a motion was passed authorizeing this spending the OC have no liability to pay. The EC do not have the power to initiate this spending

                              BUT The SM and whoever authorized this on the EC are liable for the costs incurred.

                              #20067
                              Whale
                              Flatchatter

                                KP – that’s not quite right as exemptions to Clause 80D were given by Regulation (2010), where in the absence of any imposed limitations on expenditure by the Executive Committee, funds can be spent on legal action or advice to a maximum $1,000 per Lot or $12,500 which ever is lower, OR up up to an amount formally given by the provider of the advice in accordance with the NSW Legal Profession Act (2004).

                                None of this diminishes the value of the opinions previously given by Scotty and you that Cappy’s O/C should either renegotiate the terms of the proposed sale of Common Property, or if its progressed too far seek Orders to invalidate the original decision of the O/C that authorised it. 

                                #20086

                                Hi All, what if.. alterations where already made to CP without consent and the property is sold. The illegal CP acquired to the value of 50 or so sq. metres and the OC and new owners are trying to resolve? Happy to sell, lease, exclusive use or whatever. Can the OC demand back pay of levies as unit entitlements are greatly increased and have been unpaid for a few years?

                                Cheers CBF

                                 

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                              Flat Chat Strata Forum Common Property Current Page