Flat Chat Strata Forum Strata Committees Current Page

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  • #11363
    Beth99
    Flatchatter

      A few members in our strata committee have been holding the key positions for the third term in a row now. Me and another EC member wanted to hold two of the positions for a change,but they weren’t happy with it.The SM is newly appointed(6months) and has changed the old style of voting the EC and positions at the AGM, to the secret ballot instead. How do I know who was voted when theres no transparency? The same people keep voting each other.From the word go,the SM seems to be against any by law implementations,even though that’s what he sold vociferously in his sales pitch. Our strata plan clearly has by laws in place,against hanging of laundry on balcony,residents parking in visitors. The earlier SM was keen in upkeep of by laws,but the new chap says that the majority of committee doesnt want notices sent to the residents violating by laws. This is what he says! I believe they are not keen to do so as theyre friendly with these residents,and they wont have a chat either about by laws. 

      Me and one of the other member(when we held positions) had kept the block looking very neat,but now its looking very shabby. Its clear that the SM is not interested and even though he keeps saying that theres no will from the committee,the committee members have never affirmed the same in writing,they chose to not respond. Residents sub letting is another issue as those folks are using the visitors spots to park,and leave the security doors open as all of them don’t have keys. That’s a huge security risk.The SM casually wrote back on this issue saying-”In regards to overcrowding, I do not believe there is such a stipulation in your local council.” I didn’t know what to make of that?

      With the previous SM,we definitely had it checked and all extra residents were allowed with the owners approval.

       From a recent look at the levies,its apparent that many of these EC members(including secretary) are in arrears,some over 60 days. The SM has chosen to ignore that as well. I’m really at my wits end,and don’t know how to better the situation? What can be done? Isnt there some way to make them implement the by laws which are there in our strata plan? Being in majority surely cant be a ticket to let by laws be flouted? I have tried calling them for talks and wrote to them as well,and that has elicited no response. Thanks in advance.

    Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 18 total)
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    • #28273
      Banned
      Blocked

        As a starting point, if you have enough support from the other lot owners that are not committee members, and are also concerned about the same issues that you are, you could take this opportunity to request an EGM be called.  As your fellow strata committee members are not financial they won’t be able to vote unless they pay up before the meeting.  Failing that you can wait and put your motions on the next AGM or you can apply for free Mediation at Fair Trading.

        #28274
        Beth99
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          Thanks Dingo,will consider the options. Waiting to see what other members/moderators have to say. Cheers

          #28275
          Lady Penelope
          Strataguru

            Beth99 – Dingo’s response is solid. It may catch out a few of the owners who are in arrears.

            There are two ways to arrange for a general meeting:

            • the secretary or strata committee may call one at any time, or
            • if owners entitled to vote, who together hold at least a quarter of the total unit entitlements, ask for a meeting. They would need to give written notice to the Secretary asking for the meeting to be held. If the Secretary is away, the notice can be given to another strata committee member.

            Here is a link to a legal opinion about voting and arrears:

            https://www.lookupstrata.com.au/nsw-owner-unfinancial-levies/

            I am a bit confused about what your concerns are.

            Are you concerned about non-financial owners voting at general meetings? or

            Are you concerned about non financial committee members voting at committee meetings? or

            Are you concerned about the arrears collection process?

            Is the secret ballot vote for committee members a secret ballot at a general meeting?

            Is the secret ballot vote a vote for general positions (and specific positions are decided at the committee meeting immediately following the general meeting) or is the secret ballot vote for specific positions at the general meeting?

            Can you provide an example of the Motion where a secret ballot was called for?

            How many committee members are permitted at you scheme? If you missed out on a position do you think that you may have a better chance if the number of permitted positions was increased (bearing in mind that the maximum limit under the Act must not be exceeded.) NB: You are able to raise a Motion for resolution at a general meeting to increase the numbers of committee members if the maximum limit has not been reached.

            What is the process at your scheme for issuing a Notice to Comply with a by-law? Is it by general meeting approval or has the authority been delegated to the strata committee, or has it been delegated to the strata Manager?  A notice must be issued before any further action can be taken to enforce the by-laws.

            #28279
            Jimmy-T
            Keymaster

              @Lady Penelope said:
              I am a bit confused about what your concerns are …

              Is the secret ballot vote for committee members a secret ballot at a general meeting?

              Is the secret ballot vote a vote for general positions (and specific positions are decided at the committee meeting immediately following the general meeting) or is the secret ballot vote for specific positions at the general meeting?

              Can you provide an example of the Motion where a secret ballot was called for?

              I am also confused.  Is the objection that a) a secret ballot was called or b) the result was kept secret?

              If a) then you have to make sure everyone who voted was entitled to vote (this doesn’t affect the secrecy as you don’t know how they voted). You also need to check that they were validly nominated (e.g. NOT by someone who was also standing for election).  These records have to be kept by the owners corp so it should be easy to check (if you force them to show you).

              If b) you are entitled to know who was elected and who they then chose as officers of the committee.  That should be in the minutes of the AGM and the minutes of every strata committee meeting thereafter.

              The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
              #28282
              Beth99
              Flatchatter
              Chat-starter

                Lady Penelope said:

                Are you concerned about non-financial owners voting at general meetings? or
                Are you concerned about non financial committee members voting at committee meetings? 

                I am concerned that they are misusing their positions for their own advantage

                Are you concerned about the arrears collection process?- 

                This has been tabled at the AGM and I will ask the SM to implement

                Is the secret ballot vote for committee members a secret ballot at a general meeting?

                Previously this was done at the AGM. This SM said it is not on the agenda and we can do it by email. The nominations were also done by email.

                Is the secret ballot vote a vote for general positions (and specific positions are decided at the committee meeting immediately following the general meeting) or is the secret ballot vote for specific positions at the general meeting?

                The nominations were for specific positions

                Can you provide an example of the Motion where a secret ballot was called for?

                This is the first time – for office bearer positions

                How many committee members are permitted at you scheme?

                3 ( Chairman, Secy, Treasurer) & 3 members

                If you missed out on a position do you think that you may have a better chance if the number of permitted positions was increased (bearing in mind that the maximum limit under the Act must not be exceeded.) NB: You are able to raise a Motion for resolution at a general meeting to increase the numbers of committee members if the maximum limit has not been reached.

                We are only 14 units. The other 8 owners are not interested.

                What is the process at your scheme for issuing a Notice to Comply with a by-law? Is it by general meeting approval or has the authority been delegated to the strata committee, or has it been delegated to the strata Manager?  A notice must be issued before any further action can be taken to enforce the by-laws.

                Two warning letters and then notice to comply. The SM agreed to this in his first appointment meeting. And the other committee members did not disagree. But now I get the feeling that they ring him separately and say they do not want to do this. So now he is asking for a majority vote. Why do by laws need a majority vote. It does not make sense.

                #28283
                Beth99
                Flatchatter
                Chat-starter

                  Jimmy T said:
                  I am also confused.  Is the objection that a) a secret ballot was called or b) the result was kept secret?

                  The fact that he decided it would be done by secret ballot. He announced the results in  10 days time

                  If a) then you have to make sure everyone who voted was entitled to vote (this doesn’t affect the secrecy as you don’t know how they voted). You also need to check that they were validly nominated (e.g. NOT by someone who was also standing for election).

                  As in nominated by one person and seconded by another who are not standing for the position ?

                  #28284
                  Jimmy-T
                  Keymaster

                    @Beth99 said:
                    As in nominated by one person and seconded by another who are not standing for the position ?  

                    There is no seconder required for a strata committee election.  All that’s required is that the person making the nomination is: 

                    a) not standing for election themselves
                    b) not nominating more than one person
                    c) ‘financial’ at the time of the meeting
                    d) if they nominated themselves, they are not co-owners of their unit

                    If any member of the committee fails on any of these, they should stand down immediately (although the committee can just reappoint them). At least their incompetence and lack of knowledge of basic strata law would be exposed.

                    I will look into the issue of secret ballots for strata committee office-bearer roles later.

                    The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                    #28287
                    Jimmy-T
                    Keymaster

                      The Act clearly allows for secret ballots for the election of committee members at an AGM. Not sure if it covers the “selection” of office-bearers.  I suspect not.

                      29 SECRET BALLOTS

                       

                      (1) Voting on a motion or for an election at a meeting may be carried out by a secret ballot if:

                      (a) the strata committee determines that the motion or matter is to be so determined, or

                      (b) at least one-quarter of the persons entitled to vote on the motion or election agree that the motion or matter is to be so determined.

                      (2) The regulations may make provision for or with respect to the procedures for a secret ballot.

                      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                      #28290
                      Lady Penelope
                      Strataguru

                        Beth99 – I think that I am understanding your concerns a little better now.

                        Please correct me if I am wrong – You are on the committee as an ordinary member and you want to be an executive member. You did not receive enough votes from the other 5 committee members to achieve your goal of obtaining an executive position when the committee positions were voted on by email, therefore you are looking at the legality of the committee voting to see whether it was conducted properly. In doing so you have discovered some irregularities. 

                        Yes – it appears that your concerns are justified in at least two areas (1) voting by unfinancial member(s), and (2) voting on committee positions by email.

                        After you have read through the information below you will realise that it puts you in a conundrum. Do you bring all of these facts to the attention of the SM and the committee and have all office bearer positions invalidated which will allow the members who are unfinacial to become so, or do you bring only the first part of them (the ‘unfinancial part’) to the attention of the SM and the committee in the hope that you achieve an executive position by default?

                        Here are the facts:

                        A member of the strata committee is not entitled to vote at a strata committee meeting if they are an unfinancial owner of a lot in the strata scheme when the notice of meeting was given and the amounts owed by them were not paid before the meeting. (See para below regarding ‘notice’).

                        Therefore, if the secretary or any other executive position was unfinancial at the time the notice was given about the voting for committee positions, and they did not pay the arrears before the meeting, then their position would be invalid and it should be awarded to the person who received the next highest vote.

                        Each member of the strata committee, and every lot owner, must be given a notice of an intended strata committee meeting at least 3 days before the meeting is due to be held. 

                        Even more importantly, the election of office bearer positions are not permitted to be voted on by email. 

                        Here is an extract from the OFT site:

                        Voting by email, teleconference or other technologies 

                        A strata committee may pass a resolution to adopt any of the following means of voting by the committee:

                        • voting by teleconference, video-conferencing, email or other electronic means by a member while participating in a meeting from a remote location,  or
                        • voting by email or other technological means before the meeting at which the matter is to be determined by the committee. This can include accessing a voting website or even a Facebook page. This form of voting cannot be used for the election of officers of the strata committee.
                        #28292
                        Banned
                        Blocked

                          @Beth99 said:
                          The SM casually wrote back on this issue saying-”In regards to overcrowding, I do not believe there is such a stipulation in your local council.” I didn’t know what to make of that?

                          I think he means that there is no council regulations in regards to overcrowding and on that basis there is no issue with sub letting.

                            Isnt there some way to make them implement the by laws which are there in our strata plan? Being in majority surely cant be a ticket to let by laws be flouted? I have tried calling them for talks and wrote to them as well,and that has elicited no response. Thanks in advance.  

                          In reality the process for enforcing by-laws is not as simple as many people would like it to be – here is an example;

                          http://www.flatchat.com.au/forum/cttt-the-consumer-trader-and-tenancy-tribunal/broken-system/page-2/#p21106

                          #28294
                          Lady Penelope
                          Strataguru

                            If a tenant is subletting then they may be in breach of their rental conditions. Perhaps the real estate agent that is handling the property should be notified, and/or the owner of the Lot. They may not be aware that subletting is occurring.

                            Council may not have an input into overcrowding, as the SM has stated, but the new strata Act permits the OC to pass a by-law against overcrowding. Perhaps your scheme can adopt such a by-law at the next General Meeting.

                            Here is an extract from the OFT site regarding over crowding:

                            “Overcrowding can impact on the amenity of residents living in a strata scheme and pose significant health and safety risks. Common problems that arise can include noise problems, excessive water use, and insufficient parking in the complex. It can also place a strain on facilities and common property, and create fire hazards.

                            The reforms allow owners corporations to make a by-law limiting the number of people who can reside in a lot (but schemes must still allow no fewer than two adults per bedroom), so that strata schemes are able to better manage overcrowding.

                            Schemes wanting to impose such a limit will be able to introduce a by-law by passing a special resolution.

                            If any owner or tenant breaches the by-law after the notice has been issued, the owners corporation will be able to apply to the Tribunal, and impose penalties of up to $5,500 for the first offence and $11,000 for each and every subsequent offence detected within 12 months of the imposition of the earlier penalty. Larger families will not be discriminated against because the by-law will not apply to children and an overcrowding by-law cannot be inconsistent with the planning approval for the building.”

                            #28295
                            Jimmy-T
                            Keymaster

                              @dingo said:
                              In reality the process for enforcing by-laws is not as simple as many people would like it to be – here is an example;

                              That may be true but the examples quoted are very specific and by no means usual or common.

                              Working on the basis that you should never ascribe to malice anything that can just as easily be attributed to stupidity, the same people who don’t enforce by-laws often do so because they don’t know a) that they can and b) how to do it.

                              Oh, and let’s not forget c) “What by-laws?”

                              There are many ways to get have by-laws enforce.

                              The first is to raise the issue by a motion to the strata committee asking for a Notice To Comply to be issued.

                              The second is to raise the issue yourself at Fair Trading, asking for a mediation (now free) as an obligatory precursor to seeking orders at NCAT.

                              The third is to seek mediation at Fair Trading as a precursor to taking your strata committee to NCAT to seek orders under section 232 requiring them to fulfill their responsibilities as the committee of the Owners Corporation.

                              The last one is quite interesting as it might scare the committee into actually doing something.

                              The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                              #28297
                              Banned
                              Blocked


                                @JimmyT
                                said:


                                @dingo
                                said:
                                In reality the process for enforcing by-laws is not as simple as many people would like it to be – here is an example;

                                That may be true but the examples quoted are very specific and by no means usual or common.

                                JT, I quoted one very good example because I think that it is a good idea to inform the OP that starting an action at NCAT may be a costly, frustrating and time consuming process where there are no guarantees that you win not to mention that win or lose you have to face the people you are fighting on a daily basis when you walk out your door.

                                I have had a lot of trouble myself trying to get by-laws enforced against some occupiers who partied all night and day and drove us into the ground. Nobody could care less in that block.  After 2 years of arguments and threats with the EC I ended up selling the property so I’m unsure as to how uncommon or unusual this scenario actually is.      

                                Not everybody wishes to get involved to that extent. There is no malice intended in that.

                                #28300
                                Jimmy-T
                                Keymaster


                                  @dingo
                                  said:
                                  Not everybody wishes to get involved to that extent. There is no malice intended in that.  

                                  Nobody said anything about malice* but people come to this website looking for information and, sometimes, encouragement.  Pointing out a worst-case scenario as if that’s what they can expect is misleading and unhelpful.

                                  People get run over crossing the road every day; would you advise pedestrians not to cross the road?  

                                  I accept your intentions were good but we really have to lay-off all the horror stories every time someone asks a question.

                                  Plenty of people have followed our advice and had good outcomes, maybe you would care to dig out some of those, just for balance.

                                  *Correction, I did: “Never ascribe to malice anything that can just as easily be explained by stupidity.” In my defence, I was referring to the failure of OCs and SCs to act – not to Dingo’s comments. – JT

                                  The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                                  #28301
                                  Banned
                                  Blocked


                                    @JimmyT
                                    said:

                                    Nobody said anything about malice but people come to this website looking for information and, sometimes, encouragement.  Pointing out a worst-case scenario as if that’s what they can expect is misleading and unhelpful.

                                    JT, my understanding is that Beth99 appears to be upset that the By-Laws in her block are being ignored , the SM is not doing anything to help, and by the tone of her post she feels let down by it and was asking what she could do. I have outlined that other people have had similar issues which may of some comfort to her, and provided some general options in my first reply to Beth99 which may achieve a good outcome, together with an opinion by others that NCAT may not be the best road for her situation becasue of the reasons stated in that example. I think its best to let Beth99 decide for herself which road she takes dont you think? BTW  If a road is prone to accidents then its probably best avoided.

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