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05/11/2014 at 1:25 pm #9778
Hi all,
I am looking to replace my existing carpet with Tiles within the next 6 months, I have noticed the unit directly below me on level 2 (same floorplan) has tiles throughout (living/kitchen, bedroom and balcony all consistent)
SM advised that I would generally need approval with tiles as im fixing something to the slab which is common property, as such a Special By Law would be required to remove OC responsibility for any associated future costs linked to this. SM also advised that with reference to previous unit’s tiling renovation that it may have happened with previous SM company and have been approved by OC using this By Law 5 – Damage to Common property.
Is there a way I can check if any approvals/communications actually occurred through the previous strata company? Would this be the right way to go or do I prepare something to be discussed in the AGM?
Additionally, I have read in our By-Laws that lot owners are responsible for tiles/pavers/decking on balconies yet this is classified as common property, If I am required to fund and maintain/replace my balcony tiles what part other than being aware of noise/dust does the EC require if I am to repair/replace them?
Thanks in advance
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06/11/2014 at 12:04 am #22508
What bylaws does your building have in place regarding transfer of noise to other apartments and requiring sufficient noise insulation of flooring (excluding kitchens, laundries, bathrooms)? Not sure where you are, but in NSW it would be very strange for a strata not to have such bylaws, and I do not expect tiling could meet the requirements.
Plus, whether or not there was an approval of sorts in the long term past for another lot, I would agree with your strata manager that you would likely require a special bylaw to be drafted and registered – which will have to be voted on at a general meeting. And I feel you will struggle to get support from other owners to tile your entire apartment at a general meeting (i.e. if in my building you would need a very convincing case [in terms of both noise and maintenance/upkeep] for me to consider voting permission for this).
So in my opinion the right way to go would be to firstly consult your existing bylaws regarding noise and flooring changes. Potentially discuss with an acoustic engineer if the believe it will be possible to have sufficient noise insulation with tiling your apartment – if so arrange a report so you have something to show. And after all of that, if you want to proceed, talk to a strata lawyer about drafting a special bylaw as your strata manager suggested to table at the next EGM or AGM.
(On the balcony tiles question – it would generally be appropriate to let your OC know (via EC and/or strata manager) when you would expect to be doing this work due to the noise. Consult your bylaws as to whether there’s any additional requirements.)
06/11/2014 at 9:24 am #22509Thanks for your reply,
To just get a little more clarity I will ask the questions floating around in my head, playing a bit of the devils advocate here..
Yes, we do have noise transmission by law – “
An owner of a lot must ensure that all floor space within the lot is covered or otherwise treated to an extent sufficient to prevent the transmission from the floor space of noise likely to disturb the peaceful enjoyment of the owner or occupier of another lot.”
I can understand that a SBL may be required however my SM has advised that it may have been approved with by law 5 – “damage to common property” So with that being said, we have an apartment completely tiled beneath me, would it not make sense to at least check what communications if any have taken place to the EC and if this particular by law was applied prior to this floor going in? Additionally if it is ok for the unit below to have it then treating everyone equally, I should be able to have it? If not, then shouldn’t the owner for the unit below be advised of the breach etc?
I have made contact with companies who can provide acoustic underlay that exceed the standard with regards to noise transmission for tiled floors. If I have a SBL created and it exceeds noise transmission requirements why would it be such a hard task to convince owners corp…I am satisfying the maintenance/upkeep requirement and adhering to noise transmission requirements, what else would someone be concerned about?
Lastly, If I have a Bylaw created and then take it to the matter to AGM and it is not passed, that’s a significant cost to wear. Does it work in the way of being approved at the AGM and then the By Law is created to save the potential loss?
Thanks in advance
@random said:
What bylaws does your building have in place regarding transfer of noise to other apartments and requiring sufficient noise insulation of flooring (excluding kitchens, laundries, bathrooms)? Not sure where you are, but in NSW it would be very strange for a strata not to have such bylaws, and I do not expect tiling could meet the requirements.Plus, whether or not there was an approval of sorts in the long term past for another lot, I would agree with your strata manager that you would likely require a special bylaw to be drafted and registered – which will have to be voted on at a general meeting. And I feel you will struggle to get support from other owners to tile your entire apartment at a general meeting (i.e. if in my building you would need a very convincing case [in terms of both noise and maintenance/upkeep] for me to consider voting permission for this).
So in my opinion the right way to go would be to firstly consult your existing bylaws regarding noise and flooring changes. Potentially discuss with an acoustic engineer if the believe it will be possible to have sufficient noise insulation with tiling your apartment – if so arrange a report so you have something to show. And after all of that, if you want to proceed, talk to a strata lawyer about drafting a special bylaw as your strata manager suggested to table at the next EGM or AGM.
(On the balcony tiles question – it would generally be appropriate to let your OC know (via EC and/or strata manager) when you would expect to be doing this work due to the noise. Consult your bylaws as to whether there’s any additional requirements.)
06/11/2014 at 12:54 pm #22505@bcr83 said:
I can understand that a SBL may be required however my SM has advised that it may have been approved with by law 5 – “damage to common property”
You only need a special resolution by-law if you are changing common property. Some would argue that glueing insulation to a concrete floor is changing CP but if you can lay the tiles without glue on the concrete, you definitely don’t need a by-law.
… we have an apartment completely tiled beneath me, would it not make sense to at least check what communications if any have taken place to the EC and if this particular by law was applied prior to this floor going in?
Yes it would, just to see how this has been handled in the past
… if it is ok for the unit below to have it then treating everyone equally, I should be able to have it? If not, then shouldn’t the owner for the unit below be advised of the breach etc?
This is more or less irrelevant. A slack previous executive committee may have allowed all sorts of breaches to pass on a nod and a wink. That can’t be allowed to create a precedent for a well-managed EC that comes in years later. Precedent is not considered at NCAT and neither should it be in your unit block.
I have made contact with companies who can provide acoustic underlay that exceed the standard with regards to noise transmission for tiled floors. If I have a SBL created and … I am satisfying the maintenance/upkeep requirement and adhering to noise transmission requirements, what else would someone be concerned about?
Firstly, which standard are you talking about? The Building Code standards for insulation are a joke but you won’t be laughing if you think they will protect you from complaints about noise. Behavioural aspects can and do come into play. Flamenco dancing and weight-lifting or, more seriously, running children and heavy bass surround sound from movies can make a mockery of acoustic insulation. That’s why some smart Owners Corps don’t say you must have acoustic insulation of such and such a standard but simply talk about the level of noise transmission (which is covered by your existing by-laws). In other words, if you get it wrong, and install a floor that turns out to be noisy, it’s your problem, not theirs.
Lastly, If I have a Bylaw created and then take it to the matter to AGM and it is not passed, that’s a significant cost to wear. Does it work in the way of being approved at the AGM and then the By Law is created to save the potential loss?
The AGM or any other general meeting can’t approve a by-law unless the specific by-law is presented at the meeting. What you need to do is negotiate with the executive committee and the strata manager and get their support for the by-law before you take it to the general meeting. Get them to tell you what they are concerned about and make sure that is covered by your by-law (if you need one).
EC support generally holds a lot of sway and, even if the general meeting doesn’t approve, it puts you in a good position to go to NCAT and ask them to order the Owners Corp to approve the by-law. But if you try to get the by-law through without EC approval you are facing an uphill battle and need to do some serious canvassing among your fellow owners.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
06/11/2014 at 2:55 pm #22513Many thanks for your help Jimmy, valuable information for a first timer like myself.
One more newbie question…If I present the specific information to the EC and SM do they have the power to approve the install or regardless does it need to be tabled at an AGM? It’s just a long way till March and we have no meetings prior..
P.S the standards I was referring to where the Australian Association of Acoustic Consultants, apparently they are much better than the ABS. The actual underlay I am looking at actually specifies the level of noise transmission which I am thinking should be helpful for EC.
06/11/2014 at 8:46 pm #22517bcr83 – before Jimmy responds, I’ll just make two observations:
1) If your proposed renovations involve changes to the Common Property, then a special resolution would need to pass in order for the Owners Corporation (O/C) to grant consent, but a Special By-Law is only required if the O/C then desires to transfer its obligations to maintain those renovated sections of its common property (floor) to you as the “renovator”, and thereby to all subsequent owners of your Lot; and you agree in writing to that. As I recently mentioned in another post, the rationale for that is that an owner, or more correctly their contractor, may be replacing developer-quality floor tiles (or carpet) with a high-quality / high cost / high maintenance flooring product with acoustic insulation for which the O/C may not want to be responsible.
3) Rather than an O/C having multiple Special By-Laws covering multiple owners’ maintenance responsibilities for changed areas of its Common Property, one generic Special By-Law can cover a multitude of renovation types by any Owner, in which case the Executive Committee or the Strata Manager (if so delegated in their Agency Agreement) can grant consent on behalf of the O/C strictly within the scope and conditions of that Special By-Law; i.e. without the need for a General Meeting.
Over to you Jimmy.
07/11/2014 at 8:51 am #22519Thanks Whale,
I am now discussing with the SM my options particulalry around the last point where a generic style Bylaw can be included allowing an EC to approve on behalf of OC.
Would such a By law have to be funded by the OC which I would imagine is then for approval in an AGM?
07/11/2014 at 1:53 pm #22523As such a Special By-Law would benefit the Owners Corporation (O/C) [i.e. all Owners], then YES the costs of its preparation and registration (on the Strata Title) would be covered by the O/C provided of course that it’s approved by way of a special resolution at a General Meeting, where ≥75% of those in attendance both personally and by proxy would need to vote in favour in accordance with the units of entitlement of their respective Lots (i.e. a “poll vote” as opposed to one determined by a simple majority).
09/11/2014 at 5:56 pm #22533@Whale said:
As such a Special By-Law would benefit the Owners Corporation (O/C) [i.e. all Owners], then YES the costs of its preparation and registration (on the Strata Title) would be covered by the O/C provided of course that it’s approved by way of a special resolution at a General Meeting, where ≥75% of those in attendance both personally and by proxy would need to vote in favour in accordance with the units of entitlement of their respective Lots (i.e. a “poll vote” as opposed to one determined by a simple majority).Thanks Whale,
I’m halfway between Tiles and Timber at the moment, I have the feeling they won’t be looking to fund anything additional they don’t have to only as we have some major special levies heading our way shortly.
However I guess if others in the OC feel strongly about it then its worth a shot to raise it in the AGM and see what comes out of it…
28/11/2014 at 2:38 pm #22652I think that in general, it would be a good idea to let the management know what you’re intending to do so that they can give you the green light. But at the end of the day, what they’re the most concerned about is other people complaining about noise and pollution, so make sure that whatever you’re bringing in like the moving boxes of tiles and all the items that you’re clearing out like the pulled-up carpet are dealt with appropriately. Best to keep on the good side of everyone so they’ll let you go ahead with what you want to do…
28/11/2014 at 11:38 pm #22656@audreygreenwood said:
… at the end of the day, what they’re the most concerned about is other people complaining about noise and pollution…You think? What they may be most concerned about is the likelihood of increased noise transmission from floors that may not have been properly acoustically insulated.
Be clear on this, it you lift carpets and lay down any flooring that impacts on your neighbours below, above and the to side, you could end up having to remove, replace or cover them up.
Your concerns should not be about how you get round the rules, but how you can avoid breaching them.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
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