Flat Chat Strata Forum Neighbour noise Current Page

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  • #9022
    stratalearner
    Flatchatter

      I am living in a relatively new building and we are currently going through the defects process.  What would be considered as normal noise in such a building?  People are complaining of noise, such as: music coming up through the double brick walls into their apartment; noise through closed apartment doors from people talking in the lobby outside; transference of noise at an increased volume when furniture is moved on the tiled terrace area of the apartment above but impacting, not directly underneath as one would expect, but diagonally across into the lounge room of the apartment below; and other noises such as hammering, slamming of sliding doors, children running and playing on the terrace area.

      Some of these would be expected I would think, but others may be because of incomplete or shoddy workmanship.

      Can anyone enlighten me? 

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    • #19369
      excathedra
      Flatchatter

        Sound transmission and perception represent a complex mix of objective physics and individual reaction.  Noise can be classed as sound that you don’t want to be hearing. 

        Of the examples given by Stratalearner, the music coming up through the double brick walls into people’s apartments seems most likely to be specific to the building if it represents some form of channelling of sound.  Is there scope for some form of damping to be installed?  Noise through closed apartment doors from people talking in the lobby outside seems like something to be expected unless you have a door that closes like that of a bank vault.  

        Transmission of noise at an increased volume when furniture is moved on a tiled terrace area and impacting, not directly underneath as one would expect, but diagonally across into the lounge room of the apartment below, reflects the efficient transmission of sound through solid structure, and is probably to be expected.  One just has to hope that the neighbours recognise that one of the disciplines that apartment living imposes is a need to be considerate and not feel free to move furniture at any time of the day or night as they might be able to do in a detached house. 

        Stratalearner didn’t say whether the building has a lift.  In a new building this should be unobtrusive in operation.  Fitness enthusiasts using fire stairs instead can cause more disturbance, especially if they are not thoughtful to realise that the fire-rated doors are made to close firmly and definitely if left to slam, and that the stairwell acts as an echo chamber.

        Other noises mentioned, such as hammering, have to be expected and also reflect transmission of sound through solid structure.  However, if the sliding doors have to be ‘slammed’, it suggests a need for some form of cushioning.

        Being able to hear children running and playing on the terrace area seems part of life, just as it would be if you lived in a detached house built to take maximum advantage of the plot area with a similarly positioned house next door housing lively children.

        It would be evidence of deficient sound insulation if you could hear normal conversation from next door or if noise echoing around a precinct of blocks of similar height entered your apartment despite closed windows.  The same would apply to a detached house with thoughtless neigbours, especially if sited in a valley.

         

        #19372
        Austman
        Flatchatter

          We have been through this exercise.

          As far as defects are concerned, a building is defective if it fails to meet the BCA’s Deemed-to-Satisfy Provisions.

          I can tell you that as far a noise is concerned, the BCA’s Deemed-to-Satisfy Provisions  (BCA part F5) are pretty low.

          You can have have consultants and engineers check the building.  If the building passes the Deemed-to-Satisfy Provisions then any changes you make to improve noise insulation would be considered improvements rather then defect remedies.  They still might be worthwhile but an OC might not be compelled to make them (nor would the original builder).

           

          #19373
          ccbaxter
          Flatchatter

            Very good and thoughtful replies from Ex and Aust. I live in a cheaply built, late 60s block of 36 where all types of noise can be a problem at times; about half tenants and half owners; in a quiet neighbourhood.

            Notwithstanding yours is a new building etc., a lot depends on the people living in your block. We have found over many years the best thing is to educate new residents about what to expect in terms of noise. What’s normal and what’s not. What is fair and what’s not. How to be considerate of your neighbours. This can be done quite politely, tenderly and logically. 

            Good luck.

            #19404
            stratalearner
            Flatchatter
            Chat-starter

              I am most appreciative of all your considered opinions and advice.  I am not clear on what one can expect in relation to soundproofing of buildings with a completion dates of 5 years ago as ours is, so hence my query.  It would seem that most if not all of our issues are not building defect related, and I must say for me noise is not a great issue – but then I do have a hearing problem!  (Maybe that should be one of the requirements for people moving into strata livingWink)

              And, ccbaxter, your contribution has been terrific, including your advice re approaching the residents.  The majority here, and I think in general, are conscience of their potential impact and try to do the right thing.  But sometimes I think there are people that just shouldn’t be in strata living.  They just don’t seem to be able to appreciate they need to be considerate.  But luckily it tends to be a very small percentage.

              So Austman, when you say the BCA is “low”, do you mean that it is hard to get a noise level reading that could be defined as a defect unless it is ear shattering?  If so, then perhaps we should forget about it (and I am thinking in relation to the music through the wall cavities and the slamming door noises – it seems the terrace noise transference is to be an accepted thing as ccbaxter suggests).  Your clarification re the BCA would be appreciated.

              Thank you all again

              #19406
              Jimmy-T
              Keymaster

                I think when Austman says the BCA is low, what he means is that the actual noise reduction of insulation that’s installed to minimum BCA standards is inadequate for the realities of modern living. Someday, we can only hope, someone will come up with correlation between the thickness and density of a concrete slab and the type of materials that may be used as floor coverings. Until then it’s quite clear that floors built to minimum standards should never have anything on them except carpet and insulation.

                The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
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